Australian Politics Forum - Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure

... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure Reply #15 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:04pm buzzanddidj wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:02pm: Poll added bit of a loaded question isn't it?
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure Reply #16 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:04pm buzzanddidj wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:02pm: Poll added Happily answered it. There is no difference between tobacco companies, oil companies, Monsanto (which I have admitted to being a shareowner), alcohol companies, etc etc All big bad, "nasty" companies....
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure
Reply #17 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:06pm

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:04pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:02pm:

Poll added

bit of a loaded question isn't it?

Buzz doesn't do neutrality and impartiality.

Everything from Labor is good.
Everything from Liberals are bad.

Hence why he defends John Brumby corruption, then in the same sentence will criticise Baillieu for a nothing issue.

Be nice to live in such a black and white world.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14213 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure Reply #18 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:08pm ... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:04pm: buzzanddidj wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:02pm: Poll added bit of a loaded question isn't it? LOADED ? It's perfectly clear - and straightforward
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure Reply #19 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:20pm buzzanddidj wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:08pm: ... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:04pm: buzzanddidj wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:02pm: Poll added bit of a loaded question isn't it? LOADED ? It's perfectly clear - and straightforward and biased. Which is your calling card.
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Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure
Reply #20 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:22pm

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:53am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:46am:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:39am:

Please delete wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

So he may not support a proposal which has been demonstrated to have zero effect on lowering smoking rates, and this is 'bowing to the tobacco industry'?

Pffft.

Where was it demonstrated, wesley?

I'm glad you asked Earnest.

Quote:

Plain packaging will not reduce smoking rates
Studies have failed to show that having all legitimate cigarettes sold in plain packs will reduce overall tobacco consumption. This point has been acknowledged in various official documents in Australia, Canada and the UK. For instance, the UK Department of Health’s 2008 document describes the impact of plain packaging on total tobacco consumption as "speculative". In 1994, the Standing Committee on Health of the Canadian Parliament heard presentations on four studies cited in support of and against plain packaging, and found that these studies did not show evidence that plain packaging will reduce tobacco consumption

http://www.plain-packaging.com/Templates/Blank_NoEvidence.aspx

You'd have to follow the link to get a more in-depth analaysis of it.

The quote on this study from Lateline
"Proudly commissioned by British American Tobacco"

aaaactually, it says 'philip morris' on the website. But still, I don't think it will work. People don't get addicted to the packaging.

That's not demonstration, it's argument.

To demonstrate, you would have to legislate in some jurisdiction.

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure Reply #21 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:23pm As an ex-smoker, I can tell you I did not start smoking because I liked the packaging, advertising, now graphic images of lungs and eyes ect, colours, cost. I dont think I am alone on that.
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Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure
Reply #22 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:24pm

Please delete wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:22pm:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:53am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:46am:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:39am:

Please delete wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

So he may not support a proposal which has been demonstrated to have zero effect on lowering smoking rates, and this is 'bowing to the tobacco industry'?

Pffft.

Where was it demonstrated, wesley?

I'm glad you asked Earnest.

Quote:

Plain packaging will not reduce smoking rates
Studies have failed to show that having all legitimate cigarettes sold in plain packs will reduce overall tobacco consumption. This point has been acknowledged in various official documents in Australia, Canada and the UK. For instance, the UK Department of Health’s 2008 document describes the impact of plain packaging on total tobacco consumption as "speculative". In 1994, the Standing Committee on Health of the Canadian Parliament heard presentations on four studies cited in support of and against plain packaging, and found that these studies did not show evidence that plain packaging will reduce tobacco consumption

http://www.plain-packaging.com/Templates/Blank_NoEvidence.aspx

You'd have to follow the link to get a more in-depth analaysis of it.

The quote on this study from Lateline
"Proudly commissioned by British American Tobacco"

aaaactually, it says 'philip morris' on the website. But still, I don't think it will work. People don't get addicted to the packaging.

That's not demonstration, it's argument.

To demonstrate, you would have to legislate in some jurisdiction.

The study DEMONSTRATES, My personal opinion is ARGUMENT.

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In the fullness of time...

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59372 Here Gender:	Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure Reply #23 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:31pm ... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:14am: So he may not support a proposal which has been demonstrated to have zero effect on lowering smoking rates, and this is 'bowing to the tobacco industry'? Pffft. Well damn - time to close down all the advertising companies.
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure
Reply #24 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:40pm

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3219608.htm

Quote:

British American Tobacco has warned plain packaging could lead to a price war and a rise in illegal imports and smoking.
Transcript
ALI MOORE, PRESENTER: The CEO of Australia's largest tobacco company said the Government's proposal of plain packaging for cigarettes will increase smoking rates.

David Crow from British American Tobacco Australia launched the industry's anti-plain packaging campaign today, warning the proposal could lead to a price war and a rise in illegal tobacco use.

The Government and public health advocates have dismissed the claims.

Steve Cannane reports.

STEVE CANNANE, REPORTER: Big tobacco is back into advertising.

STEVE CROW, BRITISH AMERICAN TOBACCO: They're going to go up on big billboards, so you can't miss them.

STEVE CANNANE: Today the tobacco industry launched a multi-million-dollar campaign to derail the Government's plain packaging laws, with predictions of more smoking, not less.

STEVE CROW: And so what you'll end up is with us fighting on price, smugglers flooding the market with cheap product, which brings pricing down. Remember these sell for five bucks a pack, not 16 bucks a pack.

Cheaper pricing means more smoking, means more kids smoking.

STEVE CANNANE: But the Health Minister disagrees.

NICOLA ROXON: They've told us firstly that it wouldn't be effective. Now it's so effective that it will damage their profits so much that they're going to slash their own profits themselves to prove this point.

It really just doesn't make sense. The tobacco companies are trying to protect their profits, that's their business. We're trying to protect people's lives.

STEVE CANNANE: And the tobacco industry may not be alone in fighting the legislation.

TONY ABBOTT, OPPOSITION LEADER: The Coalition in principle supports all reasonable measures to get smoking rates down. My anxiety with this is that it might end up being counterproductive in practice.

STEVE CANNANE: The tobacco industry says that plain packaging will encourage more illegal tobacco, a market they say already accounts for 16 per cent of all tobacco sales.

STEVE CROW: Sixteen per cent comes from a report that's in your media pack. It's been built by Deloittes, a piece of independent research. Let me just point out that...

REPORTER: Was that funded by the tobacco industry?

STEVE CROW: Absolutely, and proudly funded, by the way.

PROFESSOR SIMON CHAPMAN, UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY: BAT is exaggerating extremely on this. Independent household survey, an Australian Government one, found that 0.2 per cent of Australian adults - not just smokers - used illegal product more than half the time. That's only about 33,000 people.

STEVE CANNANE: But the tobacco industry says illegal tobacco sales have increased by 150 per cent in the last three years.

STEVE CROW: It's driven by crime syndicates, it's driven by the Triads, it's driven by the underbelly of the smuggling world. These are the guys we know, Interpol knows them, Customs and Excise, the federal agencies in Australia know them, and they fight this war continually.

STEVE CANNANE: But customs authorities have released figures to Lateline that show illegal tobacco seizures have actually decreased in the last three years, from 284 tonnes in 2007 to 279 tonnes in 2010.

And from 94 million sticks in 2007 to 66 million in 2010.

If the tobacco industry's advertising campaign doesn't work, the next step is almost certain to be a legal challenge.

STEVE CROW: I think the issue of legal process is down to the Government removing brands and intellectual property from the packs. And obviously, if you remove something from the packs...

REPORTER: So a constitutional challenge?

STEVE CROW: I think it would be, at the end. The issue is we don't have a bill at the moment so I can't actually answer that question.

What we have is a view from the Government. As it forms into legislation we'll make those judgments, and at the end of the day that will be something that happens right at the very end.

STEVE CANNANE: The Government is due to introduce the bill into Parliament in the winter session.

Steve Cannane, Lateline.

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Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure
Reply #25 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:42pm

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Please delete wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:22pm:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:53am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:46am:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:39am:

Please delete wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

So he may not support a proposal which has been demonstrated to have zero effect on lowering smoking rates, and this is 'bowing to the tobacco industry'?

Pffft.

Where was it demonstrated, wesley?

I'm glad you asked Earnest.

Quote:

Plain packaging will not reduce smoking rates
Studies have failed to show that having all legitimate cigarettes sold in plain packs will reduce overall tobacco consumption. This point has been acknowledged in various official documents in Australia, Canada and the UK. For instance, the UK Department of Health’s 2008 document describes the impact of plain packaging on total tobacco consumption as "speculative". In 1994, the Standing Committee on Health of the Canadian Parliament heard presentations on four studies cited in support of and against plain packaging, and found that these studies did not show evidence that plain packaging will reduce tobacco consumption

http://www.plain-packaging.com/Templates/Blank_NoEvidence.aspx

You'd have to follow the link to get a more in-depth analaysis of it.

The quote on this study from Lateline
"Proudly commissioned by British American Tobacco"

aaaactually, it says 'philip morris' on the website. But still, I don't think it will work. People don't get addicted to the packaging.

That's not demonstration, it's argument.

To demonstrate, you would have to legislate in some jurisdiction.

The study DEMONSTRATES, My personal opinion is ARGUMENT.

Their opinion (the study) is argument.

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Verge Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6329 Gender:	Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure Reply #26 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:52pm Abbott hasnt bowed to anything, and once again Buzz lies by deception. Abbott said he would support any move that is proven to address the problem. I dont have a problem if he doesnt support moves that wont. Nice work to decieve once again Buzz.
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Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure
Reply #27 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:53pm

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:53am:

aaaactually, it says 'philip morris' on the website. But still, I don't think it will work. People don't get addicted to the packaging.

Isn't it more aimed at reducing the take up rate of young people, at this level nothing can be done for the adict but it may to some degree diminish temptation for those trying to quit.

Maybe ask the question if it will have no impact why would the tobaco suppliers be so upset when they will get to reduce their costs with they claim no negative impact?

It is fairly obvious that the tobacco industry do not believe their own spin.

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Verge

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Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure
Reply #28 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:56pm

Dnarever wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:53pm:

... wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 11:53am:

aaaactually, it says 'philip morris' on the website. But still, I don't think it will work. People don't get addicted to the packaging.

Isn't it more aimed at reducing the take up rate of young people, at this level nothing can be done for the adict but it may to some degree diminish temptation for those trying to quit.

Maybe ask the question if it will have no impact why would the tobaco suppliers be so upset when they will get to reduce their costs with they claim no negative impact?

It is fairly obvious that the tobacco industry do not believe their own spin.

Its about maintaining their market share and presence.

Cat paint their loaders yellow so anyone that sees one knows its a Cat.

Cadbury trademarked their purple for the same reason.

Its about presence within the market place.

It increases your own sales within that market, it doesnt increase the sales of front end loaders overall.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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Re: Abbott Bows to Tobacco Industry Pressure
Reply #29 - May 18^th, 2011 at 12:56pm

Verge wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 12:52pm:

Abbott hasnt bowed to anything, and once again Buzz lies by deception.

Abbott said he would support any move that is proven to address the problem.

I dont have a problem if he doesnt support moves that wont.

Nice work to decieve once again Buzz.

How can it be "proven" unless it is tried?

Weazel words from Abbott.

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Poll
Question: Should the Liberal Party accept tobacco funding ?
Yes No « Created by: buzzanddidj on: May 18^th, 2011 at 12:02pm »