Australian Politics Forum - The Soren Challenge

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #345 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:13am

Emma wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:33am:

intrestin'stuffmuso

Think about this too: At polar latitudes, CO2 is the main greenhouse gas because water vapour is at an extremely low concentration at low temperatures. However once the temperature starts to increase and we get areas of open sea, water vapour starts to build up in the atmosphere thus contributing to the greenhouse effect even more. Another point is that for every 10 degrees rise in temperature after that (up to around 30 degrees C), the absolute concentration of water vapour roughly doubles.

So you can see fairly easily why circumpolar regions have had a proportionately greater rise in temperature than other parts of the globe.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: The Soren Challenge Reply #346 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:57am I hope Soren comes back soon to answer these posts. Hopefully he didn't have an aneurism or something following his dummy spit elsewhere on this forum.
Back to top	1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not IP Logged

BatteriesNotIncluded

Gold Member

Offline

MediocrityNET: because
people died for this!

Posts: 26966

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #347 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:25pm

muso wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:13am:

Emma wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:33am:

intrestin'stuffmuso

Think about this too: At polar latitudes, CO2 is the main greenhouse gas because water vapour is at an extremely low concentration at low temperatures. However once the temperature starts to increase and we get areas of open sea, water vapour starts to build up in the atmosphere thus contributing to the greenhouse effect even more. Another point is that for every 10 degrees rise in temperature after that (up to around 30 degrees C), the absolute concentration of water vapour roughly doubles.

So you can see fairly easily why circumpolar regions have had a proportionately greater rise in temperature than other parts of the globe.

Interesting i can use that!

Back to top

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

IP Logged

Emma

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #348 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 9:03pm

which presumably accounts for the increasing break-up of the polar ice - on both Poles, ...which we are already seeing some of the early results of, aren't we?
MMM that was a bit unwieldy

I refer to places like Kiribati, Maldives, Islands and coastal regions around the globe being inundated as examples.
And the legendary NorthWest passage is now relatively free of ice.

This seems logical to me, and therefore there can be no denying that we are in the midst of climate change. But I think what will make this particular
'change' diffrent from most of the others -( except for asteroid strkes,) where the change is and will be more rapid than the 'normal' event. Much more rapid if a human can see changes - 'in their life time'.

AS WE CAN.!! Am I wrong M - or just too simplistic.
I'm no scientist (obviously) but I am a keen observer - I would have been a 'Naturalist' had I the chance, most likely.

So I do take umbrage at caterwauling such as SoreLoser likes to screech. Seems HIS main problem is 'human responsibility'.

To him it doesn't exist. Like many I have heard giving forth on this ,... he hates to think WE are implicated. Like its a personal insult.
Cheesy

Back to top

live every day

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #349 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 10:11pm

All that vegetation-based methane currently under permafrost - that vegetation didn't grow under the ice, presumably. There was so much warming that all that mass of vegetation was growing around what is now the Arctic permafrost. The polar caps were obviously very lush for a very long time. Was that warming caused by CO2?
Obviously not human generated CO2 caused that massive warming that alowed the sprouting of such massive amount of vegetation.
Was is some other CO2, volcanic and whatnot? And where did it all go to bring ion the ice age? WHat power could counter such massive CO2 induced warming? And where did it all go, all that CO2? Something must have caused the arctic jungle to freeze over and be buried under permafrost.
And when the ice age ended - although not in the polar regions - what brought that on 10,000 years ago? Couildn't be all those camp fires humans burned since their descent from the tree. Or was it?

Anyway, all that methane is what we call natural gas. We should use it. It is cheap energy. And it is a bonus that the resultant bit of CO2 is a far less potent greenhouse gas than the unused methane (aka natural gas). Gas is cheaper and better than oil and we won't run out of it for another century or three.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #350 - Nov 17^th, 2011 at 9:32am

Soren wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 10:11pm:

All that vegetation-based methane currently under permafrost - that vegetation didn't grow under the ice, presumably. There was so much warming that all that mass of vegetation was growing around what is now the Arctic permafrost. The polar caps were obviously very lush for a very long time. Was that warming caused by CO2?
Obviously not human generated CO2 caused that massive warming that alowed the sprouting of such massive amount of vegetation.
Was is some other CO2, volcanic and whatnot? And where did it all go to bring ion the ice age? WHat power could counter such massive CO2 induced warming? And where did it all go, all that CO2? Something must have caused the arctic jungle to freeze over and be buried under permafrost.
And when the ice age ended - although not in the polar regions - what brought that on 10,000 years ago? Couildn't be all those camp fires humans burned since their descent from the tree. Or was it?

Anyway, all that methane is what we call natural gas. We should use it. It is cheap energy. And it is a bonus that the resultant bit of CO2 is a far less potent greenhouse gas than the unused methane (aka natural gas). Gas is cheaper and better than oil and we won't run out of it for another century or three.

Well the Arctic Tundra does have seasons like everywhere else. think about rapid plant growth during the short summer season, followed by decay and ice. the very surface of the Tundra is unfrozen, but underneath, we have permafrost.

Do you know how difficult it would be to use that methane? We're not talking about discrete reservoirs - we're talking about huge geographical areas with lots of localised emissions of methane.

Maybe you should read about it a bit more so that you understand the issues. I don't say that in a patronising way.

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/exhibits/biomes/tundra.php

- and please don't take a phrase out of context to promote your agenda this time.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #351 - Nov 17^th, 2011 at 9:33am

Emma wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 9:03pm:

which presumably accounts for the increasing break-up of the polar ice - on both Poles, ...which we are already seeing some of the early results of, aren't we?
MMM that was a bit unwieldy

I refer to places like Kiribati, Maldives, Islands and coastal regions around the globe being inundated as examples.
And the legendary NorthWest passage is now relatively free of ice.

This seems logical to me, and therefore there can be no denying that we are in the midst of climate change. But I think what will make this particular
'change' diffrent from most of the others -( except for asteroid strkes,) where the change is and will be more rapid than the 'normal' event. Much more rapid if a human can see changes - 'in their life time'.

AS WE CAN.!! Am I wrong M - or just too simplistic.
I'm no scientist (obviously) but I am a keen observer - I would have been a 'Naturalist' had I the chance, most likely.

So I do take umbrage at caterwauling such as SoreLoser likes to screech. Seems HIS main problem is 'human responsibility'.

To him it doesn't exist. Like many I have heard giving forth on this ,... he hates to think WE are implicated. Like its a personal insult.
Cheesy

You seem to be following the logic pretty well. It's not that difficult if we take time to understand it.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Emma

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #352 - Nov 17^th, 2011 at 11:43pm

What a pickle we are in, eh?

Human contribution (or not) - the fact remains that we are currently experiencing 'weather incidents',.... unlike any others in strength, duration and impact. (Generalisation)

Of course, now there are so many people it stands to reason that many more humans will be affected by weather 'events'.

and the wheel keeps turning....... Exclaim

Back to top

live every day

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #353 - Jan 9^th, 2012 at 1:32pm

Climate panic is in decline:

Twelve months ago, The Daily Climate, a website that produces and tracks media stories about climate change, declared that 2010 was “the year climate coverage ‘fell off the map.’” The downward spiral continued in 2011, a more recent analysis by the site found.

The number of articles, blog posts, editorials, and op-eds “declined roughly 20 percent from 2010’s levels and nearly 42 percent from 2009’s peak” according to a review of The Daily Climate’s global English-language media archive.

But two outlets were found to be dramatically out of step with international trends:

The Sydney Morning Herald placed sixth overall in total output, with a 21 percent jump from 2010. And the Australian Broadcasting Corporation increased its climate coverage by 60 percent.

The love media. God bless their little hand-woven earth-toned socks.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/commen...

Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

BatteriesNotIncluded

Gold Member

Offline

MediocrityNET: because
people died for this!

Posts: 26966

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #354 - Jan 9^th, 2012 at 5:21pm

Soren wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 10:11pm:

All that vegetation-based methane currently under permafrost - that vegetation didn't grow under the ice, presumably. There was so much warming that all that mass of vegetation was growing around what is now the Arctic permafrost. The polar caps were obviously very lush for a very long time. Was that warming caused by CO2?
Obviously not human generated CO2 caused that massive warming that alowed the sprouting of such massive amount of vegetation.
Was is some other CO2, volcanic and whatnot? And where did it all go to bring ion the ice age? WHat power could counter such massive CO2 induced warming? And where did it all go, all that CO2? Something must have caused the arctic jungle to freeze over and be buried under permafrost.
And when the ice age ended - although not in the polar regions - what brought that on 10,000 years ago? Couildn't be all those camp fires humans burned since their descent from the tree. Or was it?

Anyway, all that methane is what we call natural gas. We should use it. It is cheap energy. And it is a bonus that the resultant bit of CO2 is a far less potent greenhouse gas than the unused methane (aka natural gas). Gas is cheaper and better than oil and we won't run out of it for another century or three.

rates-of-change!!

Jeebus, Soren must think I"m not looking or something!

RATES OF CHANGE, SOREN,... DO YOU UNDERSTAND YET MATEY!???! Huh

Back to top

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

IP Logged

BatteriesNotIncluded

Gold Member

Offline

MediocrityNET: because
people died for this!

Posts: 26966

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #355 - Jan 9^th, 2012 at 5:23pm

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

Climate panic is in decline:

Twelve months ago, The Daily Climate, a website that produces and tracks media stories about climate change, declared that 2010 was “the year climate coverage ‘fell off the map.’” The downward spiral continued in 2011, a more recent analysis by the site found.

The number of articles, blog posts, editorials, and op-eds “declined roughly 20 percent from 2010’s levels and nearly 42 percent from 2009’s peak” according to a review of The Daily Climate’s global English-language media archive.

But two outlets were found to be dramatically out of step with international trends:

The Sydney Morning Herald placed sixth overall in total output, with a 21 percent jump from 2010. And the Australian Broadcasting Corporation increased its climate coverage by 60 percent.

The love media. God bless their little hand-woven earth-toned socks.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/commen...

Grin

fmLITTLEACORN! Roll Eyes

Back to top

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #356 - Jan 9^th, 2012 at 8:53pm

muso wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 9:32am:

Soren wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 10:11pm:

All that vegetation-based methane currently under permafrost - that vegetation didn't grow under the ice, presumably. There was so much warming that all that mass of vegetation was growing around what is now the Arctic permafrost. The polar caps were obviously very lush for a very long time. Was that warming caused by CO2?
Obviously not human generated CO2 caused that massive warming that alowed the sprouting of such massive amount of vegetation.
Was is some other CO2, volcanic and whatnot? And where did it all go to bring ion the ice age? WHat power could counter such massive CO2 induced warming? And where did it all go, all that CO2? Something must have caused the arctic jungle to freeze over and be buried under permafrost.
And when the ice age ended - although not in the polar regions - what brought that on 10,000 years ago? Couildn't be all those camp fires humans burned since their descent from the tree. Or was it?

Anyway, all that methane is what we call natural gas. We should use it. It is cheap energy. And it is a bonus that the resultant bit of CO2 is a far less potent greenhouse gas than the unused methane (aka natural gas). Gas is cheaper and better than oil and we won't run out of it for another century or three.

Well the Arctic Tundra does have seasons like everywhere else. think about rapid plant growth during the short summer season, followed by decay and ice. the very surface of the Tundra is unfrozen, but underneath, we have permafrost.

Do you know how difficult it would be to use that methane? We're not talking about discrete reservoirs - we're talking about huge geographical areas with lots of localised emissions of methane.

Maybe you should read about it a bit more so that you understand the issues. I don't say that in a patronising way.

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/exhibits/biomes/tundra.php

- and please don't take a phrase out of context to promote your agenda this time.

How deep into the permafrost is there decaying vegetation?

Maybe we should start drilling for gas and oil in Alaska and Siberia and the Arctic, after all.

Back to top

IP Logged

BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: The Soren Challenge Reply #357 - Jan 9^th, 2012 at 8:59pm Has Soren got all the good drugs or what?!!?
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #358 - Jan 10^th, 2012 at 10:17am

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

Climate panic is in decline:

Twelve months ago, The Daily Climate, a website that produces and tracks media stories about climate change, declared that 2010 was “the year climate coverage ‘fell off the map.’” The downward spiral continued in 2011, a more recent analysis by the site found.

The number of articles, blog posts, editorials, and op-eds “declined roughly 20 percent from 2010’s levels and nearly 42 percent from 2009’s peak” according to a review of The Daily Climate’s global English-language media archive.

But two outlets were found to be dramatically out of step with international trends:

The Sydney Morning Herald placed sixth overall in total output, with a 21 percent jump from 2010. And the Australian Broadcasting Corporation increased its climate coverage by 60 percent.

The love media. God bless their little hand-woven earth-toned socks.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/commen...

Grin

Probably a consequence of the Carbon Tax debate, I'd say. Generally people are not interested in the dire consequences of CO2 pollution (it's not just about warming) for their ancestors.

Most people don't really care what happens to the world 100 years hence or 300 years hence.

An interesting statistic: If we suddenly stopped burning fossil fuels today, the legacy would still last at least 1000 years.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

barnaby joe Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1992 euchareena	Re: The Soren Challenge Reply #359 - Jan 10^th, 2012 at 3:49pm BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 8:59pm: Has Soren got all the good drugs or what?!!? Wouldn't you like to know, huh?
Back to top	IP Logged