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The Soren Challenge (Read 45102 times)
progressiveslol
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #75 - Jul 7th, 2011 at 8:08pm
 
Remember the hockey stick and the excuses of why they couldnt account for the lack of warming. Well isnt it funny how now we have been told the truth that the earth hasn't warmed since 1998 and has cooled slightly. Well bugger me, isnt that the same time period for the lack of warming in the manning fraud (climategate)
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barnaby joe
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #76 - Jul 8th, 2011 at 8:43pm
 
no i don't remember that stupid
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Emma
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #77 - Jul 9th, 2011 at 3:42am
 
huh?  Roll Eyes

Remember the HOCKEY STICK?????
I am afraid one of us is lost - and it 's not me.

Earth calling PGLOL
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muso
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #78 - Jul 9th, 2011 at 9:58pm
 
I do remember a cricket bat in my dim and distant past, old boy. Maybe that's what you're thinking about.

Perhaps it concerns this article:
http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/2011/02/give-joe-hockey-the-stick.html

Give Joe Hockey The Stick

Quote:
Queensland economist Joseph Clark examines Joe Hockey's economic statements, and isn't impressed by what he finds:


If not, please feel free to elucidate in your own words without cutting and pasting.
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Soren
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #79 - Jul 11th, 2011 at 4:24pm
 


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Soren
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #80 - Jul 29th, 2011 at 3:06pm
 
The effect of atmospheric CO2 on the climate is oversestimated by models. Reality does not conform to models with multiple assumptions.



"Abstract: The sensitivity of the climate system to an imposed radiative imbalance remains
the largest source of uncertainty in projections of future anthropogenic climate change.
Here we present further evidence that this uncertainty from an observational perspective is
largely due to the masking of the radiative feedback signal by internal radiative forcing,
probably due to natural cloud variations. That these internal radiative forcings exist and
likely corrupt feedback diagnosis is demonstrated with lag regression analysis of satellite
and coupled climate model data, interpreted with a simple forcing-feedback model. While
the satellite-based metrics for the period 2000–2010 depart substantially in the direction of
lower climate sensitivity from those similarly computed from coupled climate models, we
find that, with traditional methods, it is not possible to accurately quantify this discrepancy
in terms of the feedbacks which determine climate sensitivity. It is concluded that
atmospheric feedback diagnosis of the climate system remains an unsolved problem, due
primarily to the inability to distinguish between radiative forcing and radiative feedback in
satellite radiative budget observations."http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/pdf

(peer reviewed science journal)


Meaning?

Applied to long-term climate change, the research might indicate that the climate is less sensitive to warming due to increased carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere than climate modelers have theorized. A major underpinning of global warming theory is that the slight warming caused by enhanced greenhouse gases should change cloud cover in ways that cause additional warming, which would be a positive feedback cycle.

Instead, the natural ebb and flow of clouds, solar radiation, heat rising from the oceans and a myriad of other factors added to the different time lags in which they impact the atmosphere might make it impossible to isolate or accurately identify which piece of Earth’s changing climate is feedback from manmade greenhouse gases.

“There are simply too many variables to reliably gauge the right number for that,” Spencer said. “The main finding from this research is that there is no solution to the problem of measuring atmospheric feedback, due mostly to our inability to distinguish between radiative forcing and radiative feedback in our observations.”

http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/new-paper-on-the-misdiagnosis-o...

SO the models are unreliable. The settled science is unsettled: forcing and feedback are understood in theory but not distinguishable in practice.

As I dared to say repeatedly, the climate is far too complex and our knowledge of how it works in practice is too limited.

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muso
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #81 - Jul 29th, 2011 at 8:08pm
 
You mean this Roy Spencer? - the one who "modified" the satellite temperature dataset?

http://www.skepticalscience.com/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-2.html


On Satellite Temperature data:

Quote:
Spencer was wrong — dead wrong — for a very long time, and his ‘blunder’ created one of the most enduring denier myths, that the satellite data didn’t show the global warming that the surface temperature data did. As RealClimate explained:

   We now know, of course, that the satellite data set confirms that the climate is warming , and indeed at very nearly the same rate as indicated by the surface temperature records. Now, there’s nothing wrong with making mistakes when pursuing an innovative observational method, but Spencer and Christie sat by for most of a decade allowing — indeed encouraging — the use of their data set as an icon for global warming skeptics. They committed serial errors in the data analysis, but insisted they were right and models and thermometers were wrong. They did little or nothing to root out possible sources of errors, and left it to others to clean up the mess, as has now been done.

   So after that history, we’re supposed to savor all Roy’s new cookery?

   That’s an awful lot to swallow.
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Soren
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #82 - Jul 29th, 2011 at 9:23pm
 
No, I mean this paper:

Spencer, R.W.; Braswell, W.D. On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance. Remote Sens. 2011, 3, 1603-1613.

And this Uni of Alabama press release:

http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/new-paper-on-the-misdiagnosis-o...



Peer reviewed. Scientific. You  knockin' it?

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Emma
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #83 - Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:00pm
 
garbage in  garbage out

Anyone STILL think Abbott has any validity?????
See him lately? Like tonight? on ABC Lateline???

The Tweed Shire Council in Nthn NSW seems to believe him,  --- despite the fact that raising seas have substantially removed beach frontage, sufficient to undermine their SurfLife Saving Club etc -  But the lovely old councillors are trying to lobby for bulk dollars to build some sort of wall, break, whatever, to stop this.  !!!!!!! .
Talk about living some other reality.!!!

I think they ought to wake up to the water that has removed 30 metres of foreshore,   and MOVE their club INLAND.  How stupid can you get --- ohoohhooohh  get out the heavy moving equipment - get sand from somewhere, and build it back.

Just one example of coastal impacts of climate change - right here -  right now.
When will people in denial accept facts???

When Fwits  like Abbott - whose only agenda is Abbott - GO AWAY, and stop filling the media with GARBAGE,  - then maybe those with a intellectual difficulty in facing facts - will really trhink about it - rather than relying on Brother to form their ideas.!!!

Putrescience !!!  
Huh
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muso
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #84 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 8:17am
 
Soren wrote on Jul 29th, 2011 at 9:23pm:
No, I mean this paper:

Spencer, R.W.; Braswell, W.D. On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance. Remote Sens. 2011, 3, 1603-1613.

And this Uni of Alabama press release:

http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/new-paper-on-the-misdiagnosis-o...



Peer reviewed. Scientific. You  knockin' it?



What I'm saying is that this Neocon Creationist and protagonist of Intelligent Design, who stated that his sworn duty was to protect the US people from over-government, and who together with Johny Christy "adjusted" the satellite temperature data to make it appear that there was no warming, (long sentence) has very little credibility with anybody.

Anything he publishes should be taken with a pinch of salt, because he is clearly agenda-driven.  

Here's another of his initiatives. It's all a matter of faith, you see. God won't let Global Warming happen according to Roy:

http://www.cornwallalliance.org/articles/read/an-evangelical-declaration-on-glob...

Maybe you should add your name to the petition. (and pray a lot)
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Soren
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #85 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 12:47pm
 
No. What you are saying is that peer reviewed articles are now not acceptable unless the author is deemed politically 'sound'. WHat you are saying is that what matters is who is speaking, not what is said, even in the peer reviewed scientific literature.



Remote Sensing, where the article appeared, is a peer reviewed journal based in Basel.
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/

If you think the data is crap, you can submit an article yourself. Info for authors, including the peer review process, here:
http://www.mdpi.com/authors/
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barnaby joe
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #86 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 4:34pm
 
i think its best in these instances to wait for data to be replicated by other researchers as its never a good idea to make any strong conclusions on the basis of a single study - if the study in question has been conscientiously produced, then other scientists will have little problem finding the same or similiar results at a later time
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muso
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #87 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 10:03pm
 
barnaby joe wrote on Jul 30th, 2011 at 4:34pm:
i think its best in these instances to wait for data to be replicated by other researchers as its never a good idea to make any strong conclusions on the basis of a single study - if the study in question has been conscientiously produced, then other scientists will have little problem finding the same or similiar results at a later time


Intelligent post.
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muso
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #88 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 10:10pm
 
Soren wrote on Jul 30th, 2011 at 12:47pm:
Remote Sensing, where the article appeared, is a peer reviewed journal based in Basel.
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/

If you think the data is crap, you can submit an article yourself. Info for authors, including the peer review process, here:
http://www.mdpi.com/authors/



There are many obscure articles submitted to open access journals. If it's such a major finding, why doesn't he publish in one of the mainstream journals? (because he can't get it peer reviewed by somebody from UAH ?)

Here's Kevin Trenberth's take on this article:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/07/misdiagnosis-of-surface-te...

Quote:
The paper has been published in a journal called Remote sensing which is a fine journal for geographers, but it does not deal with atmospheric and climate science, and it is evident that this paper did not get an adequate peer review. It should not have been published.

The paper’s title “On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance” is provocative and should have raised red flags with the editors. The basic material in the paper has very basic shortcomings because no statistical significance of results, error bars or uncertainties are given either in the figures or discussed in the text. Moreover the description of methods of what was done is not sufficient to be able to replicate results. As a first step, some quick checks have been made to see whether results can be replicated and we find some points of contention.....
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Emma
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Re: The Soren Challenge
Reply #89 - Jul 30th, 2011 at 10:26pm
 
Like I said .........
Garbage In .....=  Garbage OUT! Cool
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