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State of Inheritance Laws in Oz (Read 1658 times)
Emma
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State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
May 26th, 2011 at 1:26am
 

I am aggrieved, angry, and powerless.  Sad

Have any of you had the misfortune of becoming embroiled in the Law that relates to the proper administration of Wills,  Enduring Powers of Attorney et al.?  Like as an appointed joint co-executor?

Do you think it is important to have a Will?  Think again - a Will isn't worth the paper its written on.,   I am talking about VICTORIAN state law - as  in the state of Victoria, Australia..  I can only describe it as injurious, antiquated and beyond the realms of common sense.
Talk about Literalism taken to the extreme.,!!! Outcomes can be [i]gross
distortions of what 'should be.'

The intent of the law, the purpose, of the Law, has been abrogated in the Courts of the state of Victoria.[/i]

I have to tell you, that you can put what you like in your Last Will and Testament,  .....but it means nothing .. !!
If the Trustee(s) - Executor(s) - you appoint wish, they can ignore your will,  and do as they choose -- AND  --
SUFFER NO CONSEQUENCES. 
They can act illegally  and disappear money and information and answer to no-one.

Thanks to the case law precedences in Vic law which have written down the sanctity of a person's Last Will and Testament.  It is irrelevant what the deceased actually wished, be it ever so clear and reasonable, and I think THAT STINKS.!!.
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Emma
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #1 - May 26th, 2011 at 10:51pm
 
I'll add

Good luck to you all.
And remember -  possession is nine/tenths of the Law.! Angry
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Bobby.
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #2 - May 26th, 2011 at 11:42pm
 
Jalane - that's not true.
What is true is that the cost of contesting a Will is too high.
It can easily cost $80,000 or more.

I already know of 2 people who were ripped off by wills
because they didn't have enough money to fight it.
The last thing we get in this country is justice due to the cost.
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #3 - May 27th, 2011 at 12:14am
 
Emma wrote on May 26th, 2011 at 1:26am:
I am aggrieved, angry, and powerless.  Sad

Have any of you had the misfortune of becoming embroiled in the Law that relates to the proper administration of Wills,  Enduring Powers of Attorney et al.?  Like as an appointed joint co-executor?

Do you think it is important to have a Will?  Think again - a Will isn't worth the paper its written on.,   I am talking about VICTORIAN state law - as  in the state of Victoria, Australia..  I can only describe it as injurious, antiquated and beyond the realms of common sense.
Talk about Literalism taken to the extreme.,!!! Outcomes can be [i]gross
distortions of what 'should be.'

The intent of the law, the purpose, of the Law, has been abrogated in the Courts of the state of Victoria.[/i]

I have to tell you, that you can put what you like in your Last Will and Testament,  .....but it means nothing .. !!
If the Trustee(s) - Executor(s) - you appoint wish, they can ignore your will,  and do as they choose -- AND  --
SUFFER NO CONSEQUENCES. 
They can act illegally  and disappear money and information and answer to no-one.

Thanks to the case law precedences in Vic law which have written down the sanctity of a person's Last Will and Testament.  It is irrelevant what the deceased actually wished, be it ever so clear and reasonable, and I think THAT STINKS.!!.


then what are will kits for ??

these days you can write out your will on a bit of dunny roll and that will satisfy the probate office Sad The idea was to get rid of the back log of people contesting wills so they have made it easier to write out a will Sad
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Emma
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #4 - May 27th, 2011 at 1:41am
 
The last thing we get in this country is justice due to the cost.

Well that is certainly true.

My particular issue wasn't the Will, however.  Neither party queried the Will itself.

As to 'Will DIY' Packs -  I would say - only if you have virtually no possessions or assets that you want to bequeath.
If you have ANY family, investments,  or property a DIY pack will do the job --- ONLY if you get it right.!! Even then - you have NO WAY of insuring your wishes are carried out. That depends entirely on who you choose as Trustee.

My problem was having a co-exec who acted unlawfully.  Blatantly, unarguably, unlawful - so bad that the Vic Public Trustees Ltd , who were approached by both parties to administer the particular Estate after 2 yrs of 'failure of negotiation' -  refused, on grounds which included conflict of Interest, inconsistent financial records, and 'intermeddling'  - among other things. What I can only describe as criminal.
They refused to make a recommendation, other than to go back to the solicitors.!!

My point on Possession being 9/10ths of the Law relates to fiduciary responsibilities to act with propriety re information, and transparency.   I was co-exec - I was refused any financial trail which would have allowed me to ascertain what had occurred WITH THE eSTATE ASSETS both for 4 yrs prior to Death, and the 3 YEARS SINCE.

My co-exec had an enduring Power of Attorney, effective for 4 yrs, ending on the death of the person in care.
There are far too many complexities to give you sufficient detail,  but suffice to say i was denied access to any documents relating that 4 yr period, and after finding I was co-exec, after the death of the principal, was denied financial records which could enable me to responsibly fulfil my obligations as a co-exec, even those records pertaining to the period after death.
My legal advisors  were totally unable to extract that information. I directed them to take action, but they failed to do so in a timely manner,  (in fact they failed to do anything in a timely manner Angry), and as a result I became a Defendant. Angry Angry Angry Angry Sad You have NO idea what foulups can happen!! Angry Angry Angry Lips Sealed Cry

Because I would not sign the Declaration on Probate App. sent to me without prior consultation, and refused to release the Will therein contained until I was satisfied as to the management of the Assets, I was taken thru the Vic Supreme Court,   and effectively lost the 'nominal' rights I supposedly had.  And it has cost ME- not the Estate.  Even though what I was doing was the right thing to do - I have lost - because of the way the Courts operate in Victoria.

Altho that Court decision did require actions on the part of my co-exec, within a time limit set in the Order, my co-exec did not fully comply.  At the end of that period, a separate action taken by my co-exec (the other exec ) got Probate approved. Action I had no knowledge of until it was a fait accomplice.  
No one is responsible to insure that the Order was carried out.  The Courts seem not to be concerned about what happens after you exit their sphere.  Not even a statement to the effect that it was properly carried out, by the other (now only) executor was required.  If I wanted to go further, I would have had to go back to the Supreme Court,  and basically start all over again.
Something I could NOT afford.

So please please - don't be complacent about your Will.  If you have assets or on-going investment at time of death, of any significant $ amount, your Trustee will need to manage the assets until they can be realised and distributed to your beneficiaries.   Choose well.

If you had little or no assets of value, your named Trustee can probably finalise the Estate without need for a formal Probate Application.

JUST -- be careful, and GOOD LUCK. Embarrassed


.
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cods
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #5 - May 27th, 2011 at 7:27am
 
I have always wondered about the point of having a will... as those that choose and have the money to do so can go to court... and have it all changed by a judge who never knew the deceased anyway..

so really what is the whole point ??..

death and money can do funny things to people..those you think would never do anything other than follow your wishes...

at the end of the day.. you are not around are you?and they know it... Power of Attorney is a whole other ball game unfortunately
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #6 - May 27th, 2011 at 7:32am
 
Quote:
So please please - don't be complacent about your Will.  If you have assets or on-going investment at time of death, of any significant $ amount, your Trustee will need to manage the assets until they can be realised and distributed to your beneficiaries.   Choose well.

If you had little or no assets of value, your named Trustee can probably finalise the Estate without need for a formal Probate Application.

JUST -- be careful, and GOOD LUCK.


This goes on a lot, particularly amongst siblings and a sick parent. Doesn't Victoria have a Law Society where you could lodge a formal complaint? I know in NSW they get onto these matters fairly quickly.

I've heard of stories where one sibling who is executor kept his other siblings excluded for so many years that by the time the matter was finalised - the whole of the estate was eaten up by legal fees.

It's best to ensure that your Will is drawn up very carefully and if your solicitor doesn't do what he/she's paid to do - lodge a complaint - again with the Law society.

Don't sit back and hope that everyone does the right thing.
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #7 - May 27th, 2011 at 9:13am
 
Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2011 at 11:42pm:
Jalane - that's not true.
What is true is that the cost of contesting a Will is too high.
It can easily cost $80,000 or more.




Contesting anything in law is costly and fraught with risk Bobby.

I was due 2 years pay-out from my company when we restructured. They offered me 18 months and gave some bullsh*t reason as to why I wasn't getting the additional 6 months.

I went to see a lawyer ($400 per hour) and he said I do have a strong case but if it goes all the way I could be up for $20k+ in costs and that there is no guarantee I win.

His last words "It really can come down to the mood of the Judge. If he thinks you may have a case but you are being greedy, he could quite easily rule against you in Victoria. It is his discretion."

In the end I ended up playing a hard-ball game with the company and said I had taken legal advice. They moved 3 months and I moved 3 months so I got 21 months payout instead of 2 years.

I was still swindled out of $50k from what the contract said though but the risk wasn't there to take it on.

The same with contesting wills, if you lose, you're in all sorts of trouble cost-wise.
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Bobby.
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #8 - May 27th, 2011 at 11:35am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 27th, 2011 at 9:13am:
Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2011 at 11:42pm:
Jalane - that's not true.
What is true is that the cost of contesting a Will is too high.
It can easily cost $80,000 or more.




Contesting anything in law is costly and fraught with risk Bobby.

I was due 2 years pay-out from my company when we restructured. They offered me 18 months and gave some bullsh*t reason as to why I wasn't getting the additional 6 months.

I went to see a lawyer ($400 per hour) and he said I do have a strong case but if it goes all the way I could be up for $20k+ in costs and that there is no guarantee I win.

His last words "It really can come down to the mood of the Judge. If he thinks you may have a case but you are being greedy, he could quite easily rule against you in Victoria. It is his discretion."

In the end I ended up playing a hard-ball game with the company and said I had taken legal advice. They moved 3 months and I moved 3 months so I got 21 months payout instead of 2 years.

I was still swindled out of $50k from what the contract said though but the risk wasn't there to take it on.

The same with contesting wills, if you lose, you're in all sorts of trouble cost-wise.



Good story Andrei.
The whole legal system is full of rip offs.
There is no justice.
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Re: State of Inheritance Laws in Oz
Reply #9 - May 27th, 2011 at 10:22pm
 
Yes Mantra - your offering is a good one.

I was so p-off I was interested in seeing whether there might be a way, via the High Court for eg, of looking at it as a case study 'par excellence', of the sort of inequities that can,  DID, DO , occur, but that is just the dream of someone who doesn't work in the area I am afraid.
There seems little concern - except for something I got off the 'net' - by a Professor of Law at Monash Uni Melbourne- who did something on criminal executors.  Awful to read,  in my position,  and his article ended with words similar to mine -  Good Luck.!!!

Unless you're an offspring of a Gina Reinhardt-type - it really is hard to battle for what is right. Certainly in this area - Inheritance.

I think the average Aussie, who has not yet become aware of this - would be shocked by the way the Law allows such heinous behaviour, so that your dying wishes are - really - irrelevant,... despite a truly sworn Last Will and Testament.
The rights of myself, and the other Beneficiaries were also not worthy of attention.

Indeed - what IS the point of a Will? .
Just?..  to make it easier for otherwise responsible Public Trustees/Guardians?, who enter the fray in some situations,  but almost always when a person dies intestate??. I wonder if , in reality , there is one.
 A point in making a Will, I mean.  And - indeed Cods - a "Enduring Power of Attorney" (EPOA)  IS a whole other legal playground, --,,, !! and yet, despite their connections to the person and the Estate,   Roll Eyes Shocked . after death....I have been reliably ...and expensively informed.. that the records for the period of the EPOA, belong, NOT to the ESTATE, as one would surely expect.!!!  But are the property of the (former) EPOA.  To do with as they please.  EVEN though the 'role' of Attorney dies with the Principal - as if it never was.!!!  Can anyone explain how that promotes Fiduciary responsibility , in such an important role as this???
 
Of course -- I KNOW better NOW!!!!  -  But how many Mother's do you have??? Sad


Finding myself in this postion has certainly opened up a whole other aspect of reality to me. Sad Shocked Sad Shocked Angry Angry...... Sad




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