Australian Politics Forum - Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.

Sir lastnail

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Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #30 - May 29^th, 2011 at 5:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

It seriously irritates me...

People like Imcrook and Nails (to a lesser extent) are always carrying on about wages and costs...

It's fine to want decent wages for the workers OR cheap goods for the consumers..

But you can't have both at the same time.......in order to have wages growth, you MUST have high profits, and to get a chain store company to open more stores, they must have high enough profits to attract investors. Investors are what provides the capital for expansion...

You are right. these two dimwits seem to think that money for salaries is somehow not connected to the profitability of the business.

but then you think it's ok to supplement a meager income with yet more borrowed money so you can buy the made in china stuff from Myers at a 10,000% markup. Yes that makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

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longweekend58

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Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #31 - May 29^th, 2011 at 5:43pm

Sir lastnail wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 5:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

It seriously irritates me...

People like Imcrook and Nails (to a lesser extent) are always carrying on about wages and costs...

It's fine to want decent wages for the workers OR cheap goods for the consumers..

But you can't have both at the same time.......in order to have wages growth, you MUST have high profits, and to get a chain store company to open more stores, they must have high enough profits to attract investors. Investors are what provides the capital for expansion...

You are right. these two dimwits seem to think that money for salaries is somehow not connected to the profitability of the business.

but then you think it's ok to supplement a meager income with yet more borrowed money so you can buy the made in china stuff from Myers at a 10,000% markup. Yes that makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

You often make replies that have nothing to do with the OP. nothing has chanegd and in fact, you are worse than usual.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #32 - May 29^th, 2011 at 5:53pm

Sir lastnail wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 5:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

It seriously irritates me...

People like Imcrook and Nails (to a lesser extent) are always carrying on about wages and costs...

It's fine to want decent wages for the workers OR cheap goods for the consumers..

But you can't have both at the same time.......in order to have wages growth, you MUST have high profits, and to get a chain store company to open more stores, they must have high enough profits to attract investors. Investors are what provides the capital for expansion...

You are right. these two dimwits seem to think that money for salaries is somehow not connected to the profitability of the business.

but then you think it's ok to supplement a meager income with yet more borrowed money so you can buy the made in china stuff from Myers at a 10,000% markup. Yes that makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

Just like you think it's ok for a company to cut it's profits by 50% or 80% and STILL keep paying the same amount out in wages, bills, rent, and transport costs...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Sir lastnail

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Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #33 - May 29^th, 2011 at 6:12pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 5:53pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 5:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

It seriously irritates me...

People like Imcrook and Nails (to a lesser extent) are always carrying on about wages and costs...

It's fine to want decent wages for the workers OR cheap goods for the consumers..

But you can't have both at the same time.......in order to have wages growth, you MUST have high profits, and to get a chain store company to open more stores, they must have high enough profits to attract investors. Investors are what provides the capital for expansion...

You are right. these two dimwits seem to think that money for salaries is somehow not connected to the profitability of the business.

but then you think it's ok to supplement a meager income with yet more borrowed money so you can buy the made in china stuff from Myers at a 10,000% markup. Yes that makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

Just like you think it's ok for a company to cut it's profits by 50% or 80% and STILL keep paying the same amount out in wages, bills, rent, and transport costs...

it's a two way street gizmo. If they don't get a payrise then they offset it by buying directly on line and cutting out the greed is good factor in Australian retailing which is what is happening now Wink

why is Myers still ripping off the consumer with stuff it gets made for a song in china ?? where is the justification for that when you can buy it directly online for a song ??

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #34 - May 29^th, 2011 at 6:27pm

Sir lastnail wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 6:12pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 5:53pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 5:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

It seriously irritates me...

People like Imcrook and Nails (to a lesser extent) are always carrying on about wages and costs...

It's fine to want decent wages for the workers OR cheap goods for the consumers..

But you can't have both at the same time.......in order to have wages growth, you MUST have high profits, and to get a chain store company to open more stores, they must have high enough profits to attract investors. Investors are what provides the capital for expansion...

You are right. these two dimwits seem to think that money for salaries is somehow not connected to the profitability of the business.

but then you think it's ok to supplement a meager income with yet more borrowed money so you can buy the made in china stuff from Myers at a 10,000% markup. Yes that makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

Just like you think it's ok for a company to cut it's profits by 50% or 80% and STILL keep paying the same amount out in wages, bills, rent, and transport costs...

it's a two way street gizmo. If they don't get a payrise then they offset it by buying directly on line and cutting out the greed is good factor in Australian retailing which is what is happening now Wink

why is Myers still ripping off the consumer with stuff it gets made for a song in china ?? where is the justification for that when you can buy it directly online for a song ??

The 'justification' is exchange rates (which are in our favour, true) and transport and tariffs..

As for exchange rates...the way they shift, a big store ( Big W, K-mart, Myer etc) would need to nearly double their staff, just to change the price tags on a daily basis..not worth the effort...also, if it takes, say, 3 months to ship a toaster (eg) from China or what ever country, then the shelf price HAS to be what the retailer paid at the time of purchase+ markup...otherwise they lose money...

If the Aus dollar is low, then it cost more Aus dollars, when the rate rises, it becomes cheaper ( in A$)......but no business can afford to sell a toaster that cost A$25 (in March) for A$18 in August, just because te Aus dollar is stronger NOW than it was.....well they 'can'...but not for long..

And on the other hand...if everyone tries to match online prices from a retail shop....then you'll end up with massive unemployment...

I'm sure we've had this discussion before.....about the difference in costs between working out of your garage (online) as opposed to running 2000 square metre shop with 40 workers(retail)....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #35 - May 29^th, 2011 at 7:06pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 6:27pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 6:12pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 5:53pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 5:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 29^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

It seriously irritates me...

People like Imcrook and Nails (to a lesser extent) are always carrying on about wages and costs...

It's fine to want decent wages for the workers OR cheap goods for the consumers..

But you can't have both at the same time.......in order to have wages growth, you MUST have high profits, and to get a chain store company to open more stores, they must have high enough profits to attract investors. Investors are what provides the capital for expansion...

You are right. these two dimwits seem to think that money for salaries is somehow not connected to the profitability of the business.

but then you think it's ok to supplement a meager income with yet more borrowed money so you can buy the made in china stuff from Myers at a 10,000% markup. Yes that makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

Just like you think it's ok for a company to cut it's profits by 50% or 80% and STILL keep paying the same amount out in wages, bills, rent, and transport costs...

it's a two way street gizmo. If they don't get a payrise then they offset it by buying directly on line and cutting out the greed is good factor in Australian retailing which is what is happening now Wink

why is Myers still ripping off the consumer with stuff it gets made for a song in china ?? where is the justification for that when you can buy it directly online for a song ??

The 'justification' is exchange rates (which are in our favour, true) and transport and tariffs..

As for exchange rates...the way they shift, a big store ( Big W, K-mart, Myer etc) would need to nearly double their staff, just to change the price tags on a daily basis..not worth the effort...also, if it takes, say, 3 months to ship a toaster (eg) from China or what ever country, then the shelf price HAS to be what the retailer paid at the time of purchase+ markup...otherwise they lose money...

If the Aus dollar is low, then it cost more Aus dollars, when the rate rises, it becomes cheaper ( in A$)......but no business can afford to sell a toaster that cost A$25 (in March) for A$18 in August, just because te Aus dollar is stronger NOW than it was.....well they 'can'...but not for long..

And on the other hand...if everyone tries to match online prices from a retail shop....then you'll end up with massive unemployment...

I'm sure we've had this discussion before.....about the difference in costs between working out of your garage (online) as opposed to running 2000 square metre shop with 40 workers(retail)....

so now you are saying to those workers you want to deny a pay rise, that they need to go into debt just to support an inefficient business model which is essentially a front for landlords greed !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #36 - May 29^th, 2011 at 11:56pm

Quote:

WORKERS verses CONSUMERS.

Australia: Workers will always win out.
America: Consumers will always win out.

...if you don't like it - F-Off!
Or learn to Bargain hard in Australia.
Or earn that Tip in America.

So in Australia, make sure you are working for the right Company like the Victorian Desal Plant for example, where 'Workers' have just recieved a 57% pay increase plus extras, thanks to their Union. Expect all Consumers to pay towards that Pay Increase with higher Water Rates.
In Sydney Workers went on strike for more pay with driving Buses. 3 months later there was a rise of 30c for Consumers to pay ...towards the pay rise.
So, as a Consumer - guess you can either just deal with it and find yourself a good job that covers the high consumer costs or cry like mad "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore" and go belt those Workers and their Union up for ripping you off.

Workers v Consumers.
In Australia, the Consumer is never right.
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SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.

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imcrookonit

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Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #37 - May 30^th, 2011 at 7:23am

THE nation's leading retailers want to open whenever they like, except for key holidays, to counter spending by Australians through overseas websites.

Other than Christmas Day, Good Friday and Anzac Day morning, major retailers want to set their own operating hours to compete with 24/7 online shopping. Wink

In a submission to the Productivity Commission, the Australian National Retailers Association (ANRA) has argued for immediate government intervention to "level the playing field" for its members, who include Harvey Norman, Bunnings, David Jones, Coles and Woolworths.

The submission warns "the wrong policy settings could result in the globalisation of the retail sector seriously threatening the viability of Australian retailers and the jobs of many Australians".

Retailers were accused of "crying poor" last year when they launched a campaign calling for a tax on goods bought on the internet from overseas businesses in line with the 10 per cent GST on goods bought in Australia.

The campaign angered many consumers, who felt it their right to find cheaper products on the internet after years of supporting big retail's profit margins. Angry

Retail is a $240 billion a year sector that employs more Australians than any other industry.

ANRA has called for accelerated removal of customs duty on consumer goods and a review of taxes that "make them less competitive with overseas retailers".

It also called for a Retail Minister and a panel to directly advise the Government, similar to the mining industry.

ANRA chief executive Margy Osmond said that Australian retailers, despite cutting prices, "still struggle to compete in a global environment where they pay duties and taxes that online importers do not, they pay wages, rents, sick leave and other necessary benefits that overseas suppliers do not have to pay". Cry

She said retailing "will still be here when the mining boom is behind us".

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imcrookonit Ex Member	Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone. Reply #38 - May 30^th, 2011 at 7:27am As I have said before, if you want the customers - Cut your prices.
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beware Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 783	Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone. Reply #39 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:06am NOOOO.... the real problem is that Julia's got all my money!!!!! And she wants more and more and more!!!!!!!!!! You see when you tax the middle income earners out of existence the country falls to ruin.........
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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone. Reply #40 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:28am I seem to recall that, about 20 or so years ago, Coles and Woolworths screamed to be allowed to open 24 hours a day. That lasted about six months, then they began crying poor because the take wasn't covering the overheads. I daresay that this latest 'push' will be no different.
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imcrookonit Ex Member	Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone. Reply #41 - May 30^th, 2011 at 8:35am Well Kat, you could be right. Anyhow if they want to open extended hours they should be allowed to do so. (As long as they pay their staff the proper penalty rates ).
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imcrookonit

Ex Member

Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone.
Reply #42 - Jul 21^st, 2011 at 7:21am

KMART managing director Guy Russo believes the carbon-tax debate is partly responsible for the slump in retail spending and that constant sales and discounting by retailers are confusing shoppers, making them distrust shelf prices and keep their hands in their pockets. Sad

Consumers were fearful of future rate rises, with the carbon tax adding to uncertainty, Mr Russo said.

''It just seems after the GFC that people have taken a whole new perspective on life, and they are being a lot more cautious,'' he said.

The plethora of sales was devaluing the concept of a discount and confounding consumers. To help combat this, and grab customers from rivals such as Big W owned by Woolworths, Kmart will release a string of marketing and promotional campaigns in the next two weeks, taking in catalogues and television, to highlight the business's transformation from a high-low pricing model to everyday low prices.

''I remember the old days when at David Jones you could count on two great sales a year and trusted them, and now everyone just seems to be doing this 'sale' thing … and consumers are not stupid,'' Mr Russo told BusinessDay. Wink

''My read is they [consumers] are waking up to all of us, all retailers, and are not happy, I don't think it's honest pricing from the outset.''

Mr Russo said overseas tours of leading retailers proved to him the every-day low-prices model worked best.

To back up his transformation of Kmart's 170-store network to the different pricing strategy, Mr Russo has pushed through a new-style catalogue for the Wesfarmers-owned chain last weekend to showcase the price-competitive and quality range of his clothing, footwear and homewares.

''The high-low was removed slowly over a period of a year and I claim today we have probably dropped prices close to 30 per cent … and once the Australian public finds out how low Kmart prices are I would be very nervous as a competitor.''

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imcrookonit Ex Member	Re: Where Have All The Shoppers Gone. Reply #43 - Jul 21^st, 2011 at 7:22am My read is they [consumers] are waking up to all of us, all retailers, and are not happy, I don't think it's honest pricing from the outset.''
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