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Getting out of Afghanistan (Read 6105 times)

Baronvonrort

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Re: Getting out of Afghanistan
Reply #30 - Jun 3^rd, 2011 at 4:27pm

The first Aussie to get a VC Albert Jacka.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Jacka

The French were very impressed with the way Aussies performed on the battlefield they made a statue of a Aussie digger bayoneting the German eagle.
Hitler destroyed it in WW2 he found it offensive

A sign in a schoolyard at Villers Bretonneux

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Grey

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Re: Getting out of Afghanistan
Reply #31 - Jun 4^th, 2011 at 3:15am

bogarde73 wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2011 at 2:37pm:

If a jobs worth doing it's worth doing properly and the Afghanistan campaign is a job worth doing.

That's OK as a general proposition Grey, but general propositions don't always apply.
I mean, by that logic, the diggers should in fact have stayed at Gallipoli. It was a great idea to attack the enemy from the south but they should have considered the terrain etc.
The Afghanistan campaign is now the equivalent of Vietnam.
The enemy can move over the border to Pakistan whenever he likes, from where he can also be supplied with impunity.
Or he can melt back into the general population and nobody knows or is willing to say who he is.
You could in theory kill every Afghani but their tribal brothers would just move over the mountains & plains and take up their land and it would go on.
There is no end to it. It's a bottomless pit.

It's not Vietnam. Vietnam was a war based on a domino theory that was complete bollocks. It was a war fought in support of fascists not against them. There's no great moratorium marches going on in support of the Taliban is there? Australia committed 60,000 troops to Vietnam not 1500. Australia isn't fighting Afghans to keep Afghanistan as an imperial colony. It's fighting the remnants of Islamofascism in support of the majority of Afghans.

Then we have the scenario of what happens if the Taliban take control again. Apart from the fate of Afghan women, homosexuals and religiously disinclined, we have the breeding ground for international terrorism. A renewed vigor for Islamofascism in Pakistan and world wide. A huge boost for the Moslem Brotherhood in Arab states in flux where their support is waning in the face of modernity. This war is well winnable and must be won.

Bottom line is that war is about will. Kill enough Taliban, show enough resolve, improve life for ordinary Afghans with education, hospitals and training and the Taliban will crumble. After all living under a brutal authoritarian regime is no fun even if you're in the lower ranks of the regime.

« Last Edit: Jun 4^th, 2011 at 3:21am by Grey »

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Getting out of Afghanistan Reply #32 - Jun 4^th, 2011 at 3:26am Baronvonrort - yes your right, the gratitude is remembered. Wouldn't it be something for Australia's efforts to be remembered in Afghanistan like that? Instead of erazed by a bunch of hysterics.
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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Getting out of Afghanistan Reply #33 - Jun 4^th, 2011 at 11:18am 1: 15 ratio In Gurkha favour against taliban wankers. Who'd run from these cowards? Good for throwing acid at school girls, that's all. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12854492
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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Getting out of Afghanistan Reply #34 - Jun 4^th, 2011 at 11:45am Grey, I don't think you addressed any of the points I made in coming to my change of view.
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Grey

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Re: Getting out of Afghanistan
Reply #35 - Jun 4^th, 2011 at 12:05pm

bogarde73 wrote on Jun 4^th, 2011 at 11:45am:

Grey, I don't think you addressed any of the points I made in coming to my change of view.

Yes I did

Quote:

That's OK as a general proposition Grey, but general propositions don't always apply.
I mean, by that logic, the diggers should in fact have stayed at Gallipoli. It was a great idea to attack the enemy from the south but they should have considered the terrain etc.The Afghanistan campaign is now the equivalent of Vietnam.

I made the case quite clearly that Afghanistan is nothing like Vietnam (or Gallipoli)

Quote:

The enemy can move over the border to Pakistan whenever he likes, from where he can also be supplied with impunity.

And we chase them there with drones. And if we surrender Afghanistan the Islamofascists will take Pakistan and move on towards India through Kashmir. And no this isn't MY domino theory this is their stated objectives.

Quote:

Or he can melt back into the general population and nobody knows or is willing to say who he is.

See Video for Australian soldiers ground view opinion.

Quote:

You could in theory kill every Afghani but their tribal brothers would just move over the mountains & plains and take up their land and it would go on.
There is no end to it. It's a bottomless pit.

As I've said, we're not fighting 'every Afghan' not by a long chalk, it's a mop up operation that's undermanned certainly but the Taliban and their Al Quaeda brothers are caught between mainstream Pakistan in the South and the Afghan/NATO coalition, they're the ones facing obliteration and their only rescuers are the 'woosies west' coalition.

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Belgarion

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Re: Getting out of Afghanistan
Reply #36 - Jun 4^th, 2011 at 5:16pm

I don't believe attempting to install a stable democratic government in Afghanistan is possible given the mindset of the majority of the population and while the insurgents are able to use Pakistan as a realtively secure base for their operations. Couple this to the fact that our troops are shackled by unrealistc Rules of Engagement that hand a decided advantage to the enemy and we are on a hiding to nothing.

In the event the ROE were changed to something more realistic I may be convinced we could achieve something, but as it is, and as I have said in another forum, this place is not worth one Australian life.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18789 Gender:	Re: Getting out of Afghanistan Reply #37 - Jun 6^th, 2011 at 12:21pm Grey wrote on Jun 4^th, 2011 at 3:26am: Baronvonrort - yes your right, the gratitude is remembered. Wouldn't it be something for Australia's efforts to be remembered in Afghanistan like that? Instead of erazed by a bunch of hysterics. Thanks for that Grey its a pretty good video.
Back to top	Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it. IP Logged

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