Australian Politics Forum - "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe

mozzaok

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #30 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 2:22pm

You are missing the point Soren.
I have issue with large companies using huge amounts of money to steer public debate in ways that sees them able to have government policy changed, for their personal benefit.

The convergent interests of the opposition, and these parties, in promoting strong anti-Labor sentiment, in the community, has seen a co-operative association develop where an opposition may support policy changes which are of benefit to them in the short sighted political sense, but which have negative long term implications for the community at large.

I also fear that a sense of special association may develop, where parties who believe they have been of assistance to Mr Abbott, at some point in the future, seek to exploit that special association for more personal gain, which would once again, be to the cost, or detriment, of the wider community.

In an attempt to be fair in my analysis of this issue, I have to also comment that if the Labor government had not been so spineless, they would have faced down these people, and carried through with their policies, if they truly believed they were the best options, and the fact that they were so intimidated by polling that they have become too crippled to act unless they get positive polling research to support their actions.
This lack of leadership is a terrible weakness that other businesses will now exploit, and it will take a strong leader, and a different, and fairer media, to combat.
I believe that Abbott has quite a few debts to pay to these powerful people, and as such, any policy he puts forward, may be tainted before it ever sees the light of day.

The mining industry showed by spending 200 million, they could save themselves many billions, and the opposition, and the media companies helped to let that dangerous genie out of the bottle, and it will take a much better man than Abbott, or a better woman than Gillard, to ever get it back in.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #31 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 2:42pm

Quote:

I also believe that if they could get away with it they would be flying in cheap labour from India and China, and would not give a second thought to the local people they could then sack.

Rhinehart has already flagged her desire for "GuestWorkers"

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gina-rinehart-calls-for-asian-g...

Quote:

Gina Rinehart calls for Asian guest workers

* Andrew Burrell
* From: The Australian
* March 10, 2011 12:00AM

AUSTRALIA'S richest woman, Gina Rinehart, has called for a radical overhaul of immigration laws to allow thousands of unskilled "guest workers" to be imported from Asia to help build mines in the country's north.

Mrs Rinehart, who has invested $280 million in media companies Fairfax and the Ten Network in a bid to influence public policy, describes her proposal to bring in cheap labour as a "humanitarian" move aimed at helping poverty-stricken people in Asia.

"Australia needs guest labour," the Perth-based mining magnate wrote in the March edition of the Australian Resources and Investment journal.

"Just think where Australia could be if we welcomed guest labour, even if limited to remote or hot areas, or to unskilled and semi-skilled positions.

"We should, on humanitarian grounds, give more of these people the opportunity of guest labour work in Australia, so that they can feed and clothe their families and pay for medical and other pressing needs."

labour to help build major projects. "Media reports mention almost daily that major projects are being delayed due to lack of skilled labour and long delays in processing guest labour visas," she said.

In the article, Mrs Rinehart said she believed Australia was "drowning in red and green tape", had too much debt and an unacceptable crime record.

Mrs Rinehart, whose fortune was estimated at $9 billion by Forbes magazine last month, has become more politically active in the past year. The Hancock Prospecting chairwoman campaigned loudly against the Labor government's planned resource super-profits tax and established a lobby group called Australians for Northern Development and Economic Vision.

The group advocates a special northern economic zone stretching across Western Australia's northwest, the Northern Territory and north Queensland, where resources companies could bring in temporary labour.

Workers in these areas would pay lower taxes as a reward for living in regions with excessive heat, cyclones and a "multitude of snakes", the group's website says.

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Belgarion

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #32 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 2:49pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 2:42pm:

Quote:

I also believe that if they could get away with it they would be flying in cheap labour from India and China, and would not give a second thought to the local people they could then sack.

Rhinehart has already flagged her desire for "GuestWorkers"

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gina-rinehart-calls-for-asian-g...

Quote:

Gina Rinehart calls for Asian guest workers

* Andrew Burrell
* From: The Australian
* March 10, 2011 12:00AM

AUSTRALIA'S richest woman, Gina Rinehart, has called for a radical overhaul of immigration laws to allow thousands of unskilled "guest workers" to be imported from Asia to help build mines in the country's north.

Mrs Rinehart, who has invested $280 million in media companies Fairfax and the Ten Network in a bid to influence public policy, describes her proposal to bring in cheap labour as a "humanitarian" move aimed at helping poverty-stricken people in Asia.

"Australia needs guest labour," the Perth-based mining magnate wrote in the March edition of the Australian Resources and Investment journal.

"Just think where Australia could be if we welcomed guest labour, even if limited to remote or hot areas, or to unskilled and semi-skilled positions.

"We should, on humanitarian grounds, give more of these people the opportunity of guest labour work in Australia, so that they can feed and clothe their families and pay for medical and other pressing needs."

labour to help build major projects. "Media reports mention almost daily that major projects are being delayed due to lack of skilled labour and long delays in processing guest labour visas," she said.

In the article, Mrs Rinehart said she believed Australia was "drowning in red and green tape", had too much debt and an unacceptable crime record.

Mrs Rinehart, whose fortune was estimated at $9 billion by Forbes magazine last month, has become more politically active in the past year. The Hancock Prospecting chairwoman campaigned loudly against the Labor government's planned resource super-profits tax and established a lobby group called Australians for Northern Development and Economic Vision.

The group advocates a special northern economic zone stretching across Western Australia's northwest, the Northern Territory and north Queensland, where resources companies could bring in temporary labour.

Workers in these areas would pay lower taxes as a reward for living in regions with excessive heat, cyclones and a "multitude of snakes", the group's website says.

I'm sure Blackbirding was outlawed in 1901. Pehaps Gina hasn't heard?

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Soren

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #33 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:00pm

mozzaok wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 2:22pm:

You are missing the point Soren.

Well, mebbe so, if the point takes 6 paragraphs every time.... Wink

Quote:

I have issue with large companies using huge amounts of money to steer public debate in ways that sees them able to have government policy changed, for their personal benefit.

The convergent interests of the opposition, and these parties, in promoting strong anti-Labor sentiment, in the community

Mozz, this is the heart of your point and this is why it is complete drivel.

You can't have the electorate getting it splendidly right in 2007 when it threw out Howard but be susceptible to harmful suggestions when it is not buying what your guys are selling.

ANyway, you'd have by now a functioning, 4 year old cap and trade if you had voted for Howard... Just thought it's worth mentioning, if only to illustrate the difference between competence and incompetence.

Quote:

I also fear that a sense of special association may develop

You mean like the one between the ACTU and the ALP?

Quote:

In an attempt to be fair in my analysis of this issue, I have to also comment that if the Labor government had not been so spineless,

What?!? Are you saying they duped you??? Are you saying you fell for their promotion of strong anti-Howard semntiment?

Grin

Quote:

I believe that Abbott has quite a few debts to pay to these powerful people, and as such, any policy he puts forward, may be tainted before it ever sees the light of day.

The mining industry showed by spending 200 million, they could save themselves many billions, and the opposition, and the media companies helped to let that dangerous genie out of the bottle, and it will take a much better man than Abbott, or a better woman than Gillard, to ever get it back in.

Abbott will not be elected by the top 2% of the population.

The myth that you want to hang onto because it gives you comfort is that Labor is only in a bad light, but not really bad. Snap out of it. They are bad. No amount of positive advertising could help Labor. You know this.

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Soren

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #34 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm

Belgarion wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

I'm sure Blackbirding was outlawed in 1901. Pehaps Gina hasn't heard?

Special report: Australia's big dig for foreign workers

http://uk.reuters.com/resources/r/m=02&d=20110614&t=2&i=438840494&w=&fh=&fw=&ll

WANTED: SPEAK ENGLISH & TURN UP SOBER

Jared Fitzclarence, owner of Karratha Aluminum Welding, lives in a small, dirty caravan behind his little firm's workshop, which has six employees working on everything from repairing trucks to larger jobs for a local gas-export project.

Over the din of his welding shop, Fitzclarence explains how finding the right employee can be daunting. In filling a recent vacancy, he tried several hopeless local candidates before finally hiring a hard-working, reliable Bangladeshi.

"We couldn't get someone who wasn't a complete loser or a drug addict ... it was causing no end of trouble," he says.

"It's not just here. Any business along this entire road has massive problems getting decent staff."

Fitzclarence believes guest workers are a good idea if they speak passable English like his young Bangladeshi employee.

"I think that's fantastic if they speak English. That's my biggest problem ... It's a language barrier," he says.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/14/us-australia-labour-idUSTRE75D0PD201106...

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Dsmithy70

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #35 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:20pm

Soren wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

I'm sure Blackbirding was outlawed in 1901. Pehaps Gina hasn't heard?

Special report: Australia's big dig for foreign workers

http://uk.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20110614&t=2&i=438840494&w=&fh=&fw=&ll

WANTED: SPEAK ENGLISH & TURN UP SOBER

Jared Fitzclarence, owner of Karratha Aluminum Welding, lives in a small, dirty caravan behind his little firm's workshop, which has six employees working on everything from repairing trucks to larger jobs for a local gas-export project.

Over the din of his welding shop, Fitzclarence explains how finding the right employee can be daunting. In filling a recent vacancy, he tried several hopeless local candidates before finally hiring a hard-working, reliable Bangladeshi.

"We couldn't get someone who wasn't a complete loser or a drug addict ... it was causing no end of trouble," he says.

"It's not just here. Any business along this entire road has massive problems getting decent staff."

Fitzclarence believes guest workers are a good idea if they speak passable English like his young Bangladeshi employee.

"I think that's fantastic if they speak English. That's my biggest problem ... It's a language barrier," he says.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/14/us-australia-labour-idUSTRE75D0PD201106...

How much are they paying?
The mines don't seem to have trouble hiring men that aren't druggo's or drunks.
In fact a couple of my mates now work up therew & they were the biggest dope smokers out but now will not even touch the stuff on holidays for fear of a positive test & the sack.
The money beats the drugs & booze everytime.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Cliff Richard Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 558	Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe Reply #36 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:23pm Quote: "We couldn't get someone who wasn't a complete loser or a drug addict ... it was causing no end of trouble," he says. Sure mate. Bangladeshis: Doing jobs Anglos don't want to or can't do!
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Belgarion

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #37 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:28pm

Are these companies offering training for these jobs? Or are they taking the usual easy way out and wanting skilled labour only without wanting to outlay the cost of training local people?

The last thing Australia needs is foreign workers driving wages down and relieving employers of the responsibility of training their workforce.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Cliff Richard Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 558	Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe Reply #38 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:33pm they enrich us they will become the proposition australians - we need them!!!!! this is the land of the fair go, mate.
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Soren

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #39 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 5:10pm

Belgarion wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:28pm:

Are these companies offering training for these jobs? Or are they taking the usual easy way out and wanting skilled labour only without wanting to outlay the cost of training local people?

The last thing Australia needs is foreign workers driving wages down and relieving employers of the responsibility of training their workforce.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1308008665/5#5

It's people like Amadd....

Grin

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cods

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Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe
Reply #40 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 5:16pm

have issue with large companies using huge amounts of money to steer public debate in ways that sees them able to have government policy changed, for their personal benefit.

The convergent interests of the opposition, and these parties, in promoting strong anti-Labor sentiment, in the community

xxxxxxxxxxx

mozz you obviously have selective memory syndrome...yeh we know it has a huge effect on the darkside...

lol who will ever forget the UNIONS $30 mil advert campaign of 2007..?

oops thats right the darkside will forget.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe Reply #41 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:46pm Cliff Richard wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 3:23pm: Quote: "We couldn't get someone who wasn't a complete loser or a drug addict ... it was causing no end of trouble," he says. Sure mate. Bangladeshis: Doing jobs Anglos don't want to or can't do! Blackman's burden...
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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: "Carbon Cate" treatment for Dame Elisabe Reply #42 - Jun 18^th, 2011 at 5:53pm Interesting how 'they' are saying that donations don't buy influence and asking what influence really is defined as!!!!
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged