Australian Politics Forum - Our effect on the Earth is real

stryder Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4545 Gender:	Re: Our effect on the Earth is real Reply #15 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:17pm Quote: IF TAXPAYERS MONEY IS TO BE THROWN IN THE WIND OVER THIS, HOW DO WE MEASURE OR MONITOR THAT TAXPAYERS MONEY IN THE LONG RUN IS REVERSING THE UNDESIRED CLIMATE CHANGE ?????? , Hey didnt some mob of scientists measure that the GLOBE WAS WARMING UP ???
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #16 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:18pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:17pm:

The author's claim to fame is a Graduate Diploma in Journalism in 2010 is a bonus

She also used an interesting comments

Today, The Conversation launches a two-week series from the nation’s top minds on the science behind climate change and the efforts of “sceptics” to cloud the debate.

The overwhelming scientific evidence tells us that human greenhouse gas emissions are resulting in climate changes that cannot be explained by natural causes.

Interesting words "cloud the debate"

Then she used the words "human greenhouse gas emissions"

greenhouse gas emissions is all encompassing and not just carbon - it includes

water vapor
carbon dioxide
methane
nitrous oxide
ozone
chlorofluorocarbons

So are we having a Greenhouse Gas tax or Carbon Tax?

If we are going to have a CARBON Tax - then are we looking to have a tax on all the other gases as well?

Water Vapor Tax
Methane Tax (Fart Tax)
Nitrous Oxide Tax (laughing gas tax?)
Ozone Tax
Chlorofluorocarbon Tax

and we are to take this expert advice and summary from a little girl who just graduated with a Grad Dip in Journalism?

Maqqa, what's your education? After all, it seems you are constantly trying to prove climate change is rubbish. So, if we are to listen to you, I think we are at least entitled to know your background? So, what's your education?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Maqqa

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #17 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:19pm

astro_surf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:31pm:

Our effect on the earth is real: how we’re geo-engineering the planet

Quote:

CLEARING UP THE CLIMATE DEBATE: Director of the Melbourne Energy Institute and Professor of Geology Mike Sandiford explores the staggering ways we influence the shape of the globe.

Aren’t we too puny to rival the great forces of nature that shape our planet?

Certainly some prominent Australian geologists sceptical of our ability to impact our climate have said as much.

But the facts show that we are fundamentally impacting planet Earth in unprecedented ways, and we’ve known about it for a century.

Measuring our impact
So what are those measures of our geological impact, and how do they compare to the natural energy and material fluxes that shape our planet?

Geologists estimate that on average about 10 billion tonnes of sediment have been moved from mountain to sea each year over geological time by rivers and glaciers.

Since the onset of agriculture, the river sediment flux has increased about threefold, to about 28 billion tonnes each year.

Let’s compare that to our own direct activities.

We mine about seven billion tonnes of coal and 2.3 billion tonnes of iron ore each year. We shift several times as much in overburden to access these resources.

Add to this the construction aggregate (2.5 billion tonnes in the USA alone), limestone for the three billion tonnes of cement made each year and other excavations for our infrastructure, and we are clearly the dominant geological agent shaping the Earth’s surface today.

While many of our excavations are local in scale, they are not always so.

In Australia natural erosion removes about 100 million tonnes of sediment each year. With our annual exports of coal and iron ore now at about 600 million tonnes, we have increased the geological erosion rate of the continent by many factors.

And in an extraordinary demonstration of our geological power, the proposed Olympic Dam open cut development plans to extract about 14 billion tonnes of rock over a 40-year period.

With peak extraction rates of about 400 million tonnes a year, it would excavate enough rock over its life to cover metropolitan Melbourne four metres deep.

That’s a lot of rock, even by geological standards.

Frustrated fliers in the eastern states will know that volcanoes vent a lot of gas and particulate matter from the interior of the Earth. Over geological time, that material is returned to the Earth through natural mineralization, but we know that it can and does impact climate.

So how do we compare?

Our best estimates place human industrial emissions of sulfur dioxide and CO₂ at five and 100 times natural volcanic emissions, respectively.

MEASURING OUR IMPACT

and it still only accounts for 3% contribution

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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astro_surf

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #18 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:22pm

It's not being "thrown into the wind", you moron, it will be an investment in our future. And simply repeating the question with ever increasing capitalisation and font size doesn't mean it hasn't been answered. The ONLY metric for measuring the effectiveness of money being spent to combat climate change is the slowing of emissions growth, because only then will we have any hope whatsoever of preventing catastrophic climate change. You nonce.

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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am:

So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #19 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:22pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:19pm:

astro_surf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:31pm:

Our effect on the earth is real: how we’re geo-engineering the planet

Quote:

CLEARING UP THE CLIMATE DEBATE: Director of the Melbourne Energy Institute and Professor of Geology Mike Sandiford explores the staggering ways we influence the shape of the globe.

Aren’t we too puny to rival the great forces of nature that shape our planet?

Certainly some prominent Australian geologists sceptical of our ability to impact our climate have said as much.

But the facts show that we are fundamentally impacting planet Earth in unprecedented ways, and we’ve known about it for a century.

Measuring our impact
So what are those measures of our geological impact, and how do they compare to the natural energy and material fluxes that shape our planet?

Geologists estimate that on average about 10 billion tonnes of sediment have been moved from mountain to sea each year over geological time by rivers and glaciers.

Since the onset of agriculture, the river sediment flux has increased about threefold, to about 28 billion tonnes each year.

Let’s compare that to our own direct activities.

We mine about seven billion tonnes of coal and 2.3 billion tonnes of iron ore each year. We shift several times as much in overburden to access these resources.

Add to this the construction aggregate (2.5 billion tonnes in the USA alone), limestone for the three billion tonnes of cement made each year and other excavations for our infrastructure, and we are clearly the dominant geological agent shaping the Earth’s surface today.

While many of our excavations are local in scale, they are not always so.

In Australia natural erosion removes about 100 million tonnes of sediment each year. With our annual exports of coal and iron ore now at about 600 million tonnes, we have increased the geological erosion rate of the continent by many factors.

And in an extraordinary demonstration of our geological power, the proposed Olympic Dam open cut development plans to extract about 14 billion tonnes of rock over a 40-year period.

With peak extraction rates of about 400 million tonnes a year, it would excavate enough rock over its life to cover metropolitan Melbourne four metres deep.

That’s a lot of rock, even by geological standards.

Frustrated fliers in the eastern states will know that volcanoes vent a lot of gas and particulate matter from the interior of the Earth. Over geological time, that material is returned to the Earth through natural mineralization, but we know that it can and does impact climate.

So how do we compare?

Our best estimates place human industrial emissions of sulfur dioxide and CO₂ at five and 100 times natural volcanic emissions, respectively.

MEASURING OUR IMPACT

and it still only accounts for 3% contribution

AH, once again Maqqa forgets how to read what he highlights. If you had bothered, you'd realise that the discussion is about human impact on earth IN GENERAL.

Tsk tsk Maqqa, getting sloppy I see.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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astro_surf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2981	Re: Our effect on the Earth is real Reply #20 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:24pm Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:19pm: MEASURING OUR IMPACT and it still only accounts for 3% contribution OUR means "we the human race", of which I'm not sure I'd class a cretin like you to be part of.
Back to top	Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am: So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&& IP Logged

salad in

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #21 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:26pm

astro_surf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:40pm:

Just in case anyone missed it:

Climate scientists talk about the climate sensitivity in terms of a “radiative forcing” – an obscure term that accounts for the rate of heat energy gain or loss due to a change in a climate parameter.

The radiative forcing of a doubling of CO₂ is about 1300 trillion watts – or 28 times the energy released by plate tectonics.

!!!

Shocked

But more than a handful of people with academic qualifications call into question the issue of global warming being a matter that needs no further debate.

Quote:

Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields. The petition has been circulated only in the United States.

The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,157 MS; 2,586 MD and DVM; and 12,715 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.

All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric, environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields directly involved in the climate change controversy.

http://www.petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php

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The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

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astro_surf

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #22 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:27pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:18pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:17pm:

The author's claim to fame is a Graduate Diploma in Journalism in 2010 is a bonus

She also used an interesting comments

Today, The Conversation launches a two-week series from the nation’s top minds on the science behind climate change and the efforts of “sceptics” to cloud the debate.

The overwhelming scientific evidence tells us that human greenhouse gas emissions are resulting in climate changes that cannot be explained by natural causes.

Interesting words "cloud the debate"

Then she used the words "human greenhouse gas emissions"

greenhouse gas emissions is all encompassing and not just carbon - it includes

water vapor
carbon dioxide
methane
nitrous oxide
ozone
chlorofluorocarbons

So are we having a Greenhouse Gas tax or Carbon Tax?

If we are going to have a CARBON Tax - then are we looking to have a tax on all the other gases as well?

Water Vapor Tax
Methane Tax (Fart Tax)
Nitrous Oxide Tax (laughing gas tax?)
Ozone Tax
Chlorofluorocarbon Tax

and we are to take this expert advice and summary from a little girl who just graduated with a Grad Dip in Journalism?

Maqqa, what's your education? After all, it seems you are constantly trying to prove climate change is rubbish. So, if we are to listen to you, I think we are at least entitled to know your background? So, what's your education?

Maqqa is a raging spastic who doesn't understand that ALL emissions of greenhouse gasses will be subject to pricng.

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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am:

So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Our effect on the Earth is real Reply #23 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:28pm astro_surf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:24pm: Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:19pm: MEASURING OUR IMPACT and it still only accounts for 3% contribution OUR means "we the human race", of which I'm not sure I'd class a cretin like you to be part of. however you want to look at it it's still only 3%
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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #24 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:30pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:18pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:17pm:

The author's claim to fame is a Graduate Diploma in Journalism in 2010 is a bonus

She also used an interesting comments

Today, The Conversation launches a two-week series from the nation’s top minds on the science behind climate change and the efforts of “sceptics” to cloud the debate.

The overwhelming scientific evidence tells us that human greenhouse gas emissions are resulting in climate changes that cannot be explained by natural causes.

Interesting words "cloud the debate"

Then she used the words "human greenhouse gas emissions"

greenhouse gas emissions is all encompassing and not just carbon - it includes

water vapor
carbon dioxide
methane
nitrous oxide
ozone
chlorofluorocarbons

So are we having a Greenhouse Gas tax or Carbon Tax?

If we are going to have a CARBON Tax - then are we looking to have a tax on all the other gases as well?

Water Vapor Tax
Methane Tax (Fart Tax)
Nitrous Oxide Tax (laughing gas tax?)
Ozone Tax
Chlorofluorocarbon Tax

and we are to take this expert advice and summary from a little girl who just graduated with a Grad Dip in Journalism?

Maqqa, what's your education? After all, it seems you are constantly trying to prove climate change is rubbish. So, if we are to listen to you, I think we are at least entitled to know your background? So, what's your education?

Still only a Grad Dip in Journalism trying to give advice about climate change

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Our effect on the Earth is real Reply #25 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:31pm Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:30pm: Still only a Grad Dip in Journalism trying to give advice about climate change You've mentioned that. But you keep trying to give us advice about climate change too. So, what's your education, Maqqa?
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #26 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:32pm

salad in wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:26pm:

But more than a handful of people with academic qualifications call into question the issue of global warming being a matter that needs no further debate.

Quote:

Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields. The petition has been circulated only in the United States.

The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,157 MS; 2,586 MD and DVM; and 12,715 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.

All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric, environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields directly involved in the climate change controversy.

http://www.petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php

Just out of curiosity, how does lowering emissions impact our environment in a bad way, as proposed by this petition? Just curious...

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Maqqa

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #27 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:38pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:31pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:30pm:

Still only a Grad Dip in Journalism trying to give advice about climate change

You've mentioned that. But you keep trying to give us advice about climate change too. So, what's your education, Maqqa?

Haven't given any advice

I only question the facts you presented

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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stryder

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #28 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:39pm

Quote:

The ONLY metric for measuring the effectiveness of money being spent to combat climate change is the slowing of emissions growth, because only then will we have any hope whatsoever of preventing catastrophic climate change. You nonce.

How do you measure the slowing of emissions growth over the course of years or decades, TO SHOW TAXPAYERS THAT THEIR TAX DOLLARS HAS CONTRIBUTED TO REVERSING CLIMATE CHANGE ??? Grin

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Our effect on the Earth is real
Reply #29 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:40pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:38pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:31pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:30pm:

Still only a Grad Dip in Journalism trying to give advice about climate change

You've mentioned that. But you keep trying to give us advice about climate change too. So, what's your education, Maqqa?

Haven't given any advice

I only question the facts you presented

Well you do. You advise that the reports produced are wrong and provide us information about how. You don't question the science, but refute it based on your own knowledge. I once again ask, what is your education? Shouldn't be hard to answer, Maqqa! Why are you deferring from answering?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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