Australian Politics Forum - Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty

Equitist

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #15 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:33am

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:08am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

cods wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:31am:

I am not sure how anyone can do such a barbaric thing to be honest,what sort of people are they??

Cods, IF the halaal/kosher method is done correctly, the animal doesn't even notice the incisions...and simply passes out from lose of blood...no stress, no fear.

As a kid, I watched my uncle (a sheep farmer) kill a sheep in this method

Done CORRECTLY - with a VERY sharp knife - the animal suffers NO pain or stress

This method is standard practice by sheep farmers - in AUSTRALIA - for personal consumption and filling the home freezer

It SOUNDS more gruesome than the REALITY

Over the years, I have witnessed many sheep being killed by this method - once they have been caught, cradled and settled by an experienced person, the final stage of the process is quick and apparently painless and stress-free...

I have also witnessed hundreds of (wild) rabbits being quickly and 'painlessly' killed by neck-breaking - unfortunately, this has been mostly after they have been trapped in a leg-trap (which is a particularly-gruesome and painful method of catching any animal)...

Still couldn't bring myself to do either personally...

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Equitist

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #16 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:40am

As for MLA...they have fundamentally failed in their ethical and fiduciary duties - and ought to be forced to compensate their members who have been adversely-affected by their failures (if they do not do so on a voluntary basis)...

A class action may be in order...

Dunno if the Govt can de-register (or take similar action) - but this may prove to be in order too...

Either way, beef farmers may need to create a new representative body from scratch...

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cods

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #17 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:43am

Equitist wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:33am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:08am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

cods wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:31am:

I am not sure how anyone can do such a barbaric thing to be honest,what sort of people are they??

Cods, IF the halaal/kosher method is done correctly, the animal doesn't even notice the incisions...and simply passes out from lose of blood...no stress, no fear.

As a kid, I watched my uncle (a sheep farmer) kill a sheep in this method

Done CORRECTLY - with a VERY sharp knife - the animal suffers NO pain or stress

This method is standard practice by sheep farmers - in AUSTRALIA - for personal consumption and filling the home freezer

It SOUNDS more gruesome than the REALITY

Over the years, I have witnessed many sheep being killed by this method - once they have been caught, cradled and settled by an experienced person, the final stage of the process is quick and apparently painless and stress-free...

I have also witnessed hundreds of (wild) rabbits being quickly and 'painlessly' killed by neck-breaking - unfortunately, this has been mostly after they have been trapped in a leg-trap (which is a particularly-gruesome and painful method of catching any animal)...

Still couldn't bring myself to do either personally...

I do believe sheep are a more docile beast than a bull/cow the way sheep just lay there whilst being shorn says heaps doesnt it???..

my son shoots wild pigs.. I cant even look at the meant he brings home for his dogs.

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adelcrow

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #18 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:21am

China, Korea and the Philippines to name just a few non Muslim or Jewish countries have just as poor a record when it comes to animal cruelty.
Thats why I reckon it should be ok to farm Aussie dogs and transport them live for slaughter despite the unbelievable cruelty they will endure if its ok for cattle farmers to do the same thing in the name of a dollar.

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Go the Bunnies

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...

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #19 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:22am

cods wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:52am:

Wimmera wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:46am:

Quote:

"We are against any form of stunning because it's against our religion," Yusuf Altuntas, president of the CMO -- an organisation that links the Muslim community with the Dutch government -- told a parliamentary commission.

Well, I have a suggestion. Become vegetarians!

Or starve.

I could not care less about these people.

I have often asked.. what would become of the animals if we all turn vegetarian tomorrow..

most would die of starvation. or neglect.

it is normal for us to eat meat.. the caveman ate meat long before he grew wheat...

its just that in this day and age... we should be far more advanced in this.

we dont treat our cats and dogs like this.. and nor we should so these animals deserve respect.where are all these animal rights groups.. like PETA...wheres the noise???

People often make the flawed assumption that there were once cows, pigs, sheep etc running wild, and would simply return to their old ways if we didn't farm them for food.
While this is partially true, 'wild' stock bears little resemblance to todays domesticated animals. Cows as we know them never existed in the wild - they were selctively bred from aurochs, which were far too big and uncontrollable to ever be a viable farm animal. In effect we've created new species, for the sole purpose of being our food, so what's to say they could adapt to life outside of this purpose?

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cods

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #20 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:30am

... wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:22am:

cods wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:52am:

Wimmera wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:46am:

Quote:

"We are against any form of stunning because it's against our religion," Yusuf Altuntas, president of the CMO -- an organisation that links the Muslim community with the Dutch government -- told a parliamentary commission.

Well, I have a suggestion. Become vegetarians!

Or starve.

I could not care less about these people.

I have often asked.. what would become of the animals if we all turn vegetarian tomorrow..

most would die of starvation. or neglect.

it is normal for us to eat meat.. the caveman ate meat long before he grew wheat...

its just that in this day and age... we should be far more advanced in this.

we dont treat our cats and dogs like this.. and nor we should so these animals deserve respect.where are all these animal rights groups.. like PETA...wheres the noise???

People often make the flawed assumption that there were once cows, pigs, sheep etc running wild, and would simply return to their old ways if we didn't farm them for food.
While this is partially true, 'wild' stock bears little resemblance to todays domesticated animals. Cows as we know them never existed in the wild - they were selctively bred from aurochs, which were far too big and uncontrollable to ever be a viable farm animal. In effect we've created new species, for the sole purpose of being our food, so what's to say they could adapt to life outside of this purpose?

I was thinking more along the lines of food for them and even water.. as you say they are a domestic animal they are not bred to take care of themselves..but I wouldnt know about that... I have just seen sheep that have been lost and their wool is dragging on the ground..imagine all those bulls running wild.

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Reply #21 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:35am Most of today's animals which are farmed for meat and milk would fail the natural selection process, if suddenly released into the (largely non-existent) wild... Those released, into the harsh climates that exist in most sparsely-vegetated-cum-populated parts of Oz, would fare particularly-badly...
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Reply #22 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:36am Although goats seem to have done alright. See more wild goats in the WA outback than kangaroos.
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #23 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:41am

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:30am:

Continued ...

"We are against any form of stunning because it's against our religion," Yusuf Altuntas, president of the CMO -- an organisation that links the Muslim community with the Dutch government -- told a parliamentary commission.

"One of the first measures taken during the occupation (during World War II) was the closing of kosher abattoirs," Dutch Chief Rabbi Binyomin Jacobs added during the debate in The Hague.

Dutch law required animals to be stunned before being slaughtered but made an exception for ritual halaal and kosher slaughters.

The country's Party for Animals (PvdD) which holds two seats in the 150-seat Dutch parliament, has submitted a proposal, if implemented, would see this exception abolished.

Dutch media widely reported that the PvdD's proposal was expected to get a majority nod from parliamentarians.

"It will cause an irreversable fracture in our society," said Ronnie Eisenmann, who leads Amsterdam's Jewish community.

"Changes in the law will do nothing to ease the suffering of animals," he added.

Jewish and Muslim representatives Thursday insisted the ritual slaughter respected the animals' welfare, notably restriction methods used to limit suffering and those slaughtering received expert training.

They did however offer to implement some measures which they said would ease the animals' suffering, especially better controls in abattoirs where ritual slaughters were performed and an improvement in conditions under which animals were being transported.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/ENGLISH/?id=46766

Love how they have to throw a bit of WWII war guilt in there just to bolster the argument.
It seems those 6 million didn't die in vein, their deaths have allowed Jews for the rest of time to get away with what ever they see fit from illegal land grabs, formation of ghetto's, starving of the afore mentioned ghetto's & now ritual slaughter.
Is there anything they won't attach this "Guilt" too to get their way?

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #24 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:53am

On a light note ...

Quote:

Elaine: Excuse me? Excuse me, but I didn't get a meal.

Attendant: Are you sure?

Elaine: Yes, I'm sure! I would know if a tray of food had been served to me.

Attendant: Would you?

Ooooh, them's fightin' words, Monroe.

Attendant: Well, the only meal left is a kosher meal.

Elaine: Kosher meal? I don't want a kosher meal. I don't even know what a kosher meal is.

Passenger 1: I think it means when a Rabbi has inspected it, or something.

Passenger 2: No, no. It all has to do with the way they kill the pig.

Passenger 1: They don't eat pigs!

Passenger 2: They do if it's killed right-- under a Rabbi's supervision.

http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheAirport.htm

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Maeve

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #25 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 11:14am

Love how they have to throw a bit of WWII war guilt in there just to bolster the argument.
It seems those 6 million didn't die in vein, their deaths have allowed Jews for the rest of time to get away with what ever they see fit from illegal land grabs, formation of ghetto's, starving of the afore mentioned ghetto's & now ritual slaughter.
Is there anything they won't attach this "Guilt" too to get their way?
[quote]

That is one of the most disgusting comments I have read on Oz Politics.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #26 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 11:18am

Maeve wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

Love how they have to throw a bit of WWII war guilt in there just to bolster the argument.
It seems those 6 million didn't die in vein, their deaths have allowed Jews for the rest of time to get away with what ever they see fit from illegal land grabs, formation of ghetto's, starving of the afore mentioned ghetto's & now ritual slaughter.
Is there anything they won't attach this "Guilt" too to get their way?
[quote]

That is one of the most disgusting comments I have read on Oz Politics.

Truth is often unpalatable

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Reply #27 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 11:22am I didn't see anything untrue in that statement.
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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Reply #28 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 11:25am Jews and muslims agreeing on something?
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culldav

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #29 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 11:32am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 10:41am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:30am:

Continued ...

"We are against any form of stunning because it's against our religion," Yusuf Altuntas, president of the CMO -- an organisation that links the Muslim community with the Dutch government -- told a parliamentary commission.

"One of the first measures taken during the occupation (during World War II) was the closing of kosher abattoirs," Dutch Chief Rabbi Binyomin Jacobs added during the debate in The Hague.

Dutch law required animals to be stunned before being slaughtered but made an exception for ritual halaal and kosher slaughters.

The country's Party for Animals (PvdD) which holds two seats in the 150-seat Dutch parliament, has submitted a proposal, if implemented, would see this exception abolished.

Dutch media widely reported that the PvdD's proposal was expected to get a majority nod from parliamentarians.

"It will cause an irreversable fracture in our society," said Ronnie Eisenmann, who leads Amsterdam's Jewish community.

"Changes in the law will do nothing to ease the suffering of animals," he added.

Jewish and Muslim representatives Thursday insisted the ritual slaughter respected the animals' welfare, notably restriction methods used to limit suffering and those slaughtering received expert training.

They did however offer to implement some measures which they said would ease the animals' suffering, especially better controls in abattoirs where ritual slaughters were performed and an improvement in conditions under which animals were being transported.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/ENGLISH/?id=46766

Love how they have to throw a bit of WWII war guilt in there just to bolster the argument.
It seems those 6 million didn't die in vein, their deaths have allowed Jews for the rest of time to get away with what ever they see fit from illegal land grabs, formation of ghetto's, starving of the afore mentioned ghetto's & now ritual slaughter.
Is there anything they won't attach this "Guilt" too to get their way?

I find myself agreeing with you on this smithy. There are many others not far behind us also that have had a gut-full of the Jew’s crying WW2 at any opportunity just to emphasise their point of view or help their arguments.

I think what happened to certain Jews in WW2 was horrific, but I am over their constant woo-with-me attitudes on everything, especially when they are called into account for their actions and behaviour, and then they start blaming and re-calling atrocities that happened in WW2 at the drop of a hat just to get their own way.

What they doing to the Arabs today in no different to what certain Germans did to them during WW2, and there is no excuse for there behaviour.

I really don’t have any time for them or their hard-luck stories anymore. You can only tell a hard-luck story so many times before it becomes common place, and people start realising you are only telling it to get sympathy and special treatment.

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