Australian Politics Forum - Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty

BlOoDy RiPpEr Gold Member Offline aussie-patriot.com Posts: 2475 Sydney Gender:	Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:02am JEWISH and Muslim representatives appealed to Dutch lawmakers not to enforce plans requiring animals to be stunned before halaal and kosher slaughtering rituals.
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chicken_lipsforme Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7090 Townsville NQ Gender:	Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Reply #1 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:15am One cannot condone animal cruelty under any circumstances at any time whatsoever. However, the Jewish and Muslim representatives should be stunned as well for even accepting animal cruelty as being kosher.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #2 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:30am

Continued ...

"We are against any form of stunning because it's against our religion," Yusuf Altuntas, president of the CMO -- an organisation that links the Muslim community with the Dutch government -- told a parliamentary commission.

"One of the first measures taken during the occupation (during World War II) was the closing of kosher abattoirs," Dutch Chief Rabbi Binyomin Jacobs added during the debate in The Hague.

Dutch law required animals to be stunned before being slaughtered but made an exception for ritual halaal and kosher slaughters.

The country's Party for Animals (PvdD) which holds two seats in the 150-seat Dutch parliament, has submitted a proposal, if implemented, would see this exception abolished.

Dutch media widely reported that the PvdD's proposal was expected to get a majority nod from parliamentarians.

"It will cause an irreversable fracture in our society," said Ronnie Eisenmann, who leads Amsterdam's Jewish community.

"Changes in the law will do nothing to ease the suffering of animals," he added.

Jewish and Muslim representatives Thursday insisted the ritual slaughter respected the animals' welfare, notably restriction methods used to limit suffering and those slaughtering received expert training.

They did however offer to implement some measures which they said would ease the animals' suffering, especially better controls in abattoirs where ritual slaughters were performed and an improvement in conditions under which animals were being transported.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/ENGLISH/?id=46766

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Reply #3 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:31am I am not sure how anyone can do such a barbaric thing to be honest,what sort of people are they??
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #4 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:41am

cods wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:31am:

I am not sure how anyone can do such a barbaric thing to be honest,what sort of people are they??

The Cruelty of Wounding

Birds suffer pain and stress when they are wounded by shotgun pellets. Computer simulation estimates and the observations of ‘rescuers’ on the wetlands indicates that duck shooters wound at least as many birds as they kill outright. Even shooting groups acknowledge that at least one in every four birds targeted will be wounded—amounting to tens of thousands each duck shooting season.

The physical action of a shotgun involves a spray of pellets, and a flying bird can be wounded by even a single pellet. Other birds flying with the target bird can also be wounded. Depending on the distance between gun and bird it may take a number of pellets to kill a bird outright. Those downed birds who are not recovered may suffer over long period before recovery or death from their wounds or through predation by foxes

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/factsheets/duck_shooting.php

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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Wimmera

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #5 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:46am

Quote:

"We are against any form of stunning because it's against our religion," Yusuf Altuntas, president of the CMO -- an organisation that links the Muslim community with the Dutch government -- told a parliamentary commission.

Well, I have a suggestion. Become vegetarians!

Or starve.

I could not care less about these people.

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Reply #6 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:50am cods wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:31am: I am not sure how anyone can do such a barbaric thing to be honest,what sort of people are they?? Cods, IF the halaal/kosher method is done correctly, the animal doesn't even notice the incisions...and simply passes out from lose of blood...no stress, no fear.
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cods

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #7 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:52am

Wimmera wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:46am:

Quote:

"We are against any form of stunning because it's against our religion," Yusuf Altuntas, president of the CMO -- an organisation that links the Muslim community with the Dutch government -- told a parliamentary commission.

Well, I have a suggestion. Become vegetarians!

Or starve.

I could not care less about these people.

I have often asked.. what would become of the animals if we all turn vegetarian tomorrow..

most would die of starvation. or neglect.

it is normal for us to eat meat.. the caveman ate meat long before he grew wheat...

its just that in this day and age... we should be far more advanced in this.

we dont treat our cats and dogs like this.. and nor we should so these animals deserve respect.where are all these animal rights groups.. like PETA...wheres the noise???

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Maeve

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #8 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:54am

It would seem that the cruelty is due to the failure of the Indo Agricultural dept on inspections, rather than HALAL method of slaughter.

In Indonesia, the MUI allows slaughterhouses to stun the animals before cutting as well as cutting without stunning. What the MUI should do to avoid similar cases in the future is possibly regulate that stunning must be conducted before cutting.

Alternatively, those who stun animals after cutting must make certain that the procedures and equipment can ensure the animals are not distressed, free from pain and die immediately.

This incident clearly demonstrates the failure of the Indonesian livestock services system. In particular, the monitoring and supervision roles of the MUI and Agriculture Minsitry have not been effective.

The system which allows Indonesian slaughterhouses to attain halal certificates valid for two years might need more regular monitoring and inspections.

The lack of monitoring on halal practices in Indonesia has actually been a subject of debate among Muslim Indonesians for a long time.

This incident has upset both Indonesian Muslims and Australians. Most Indonesian Muslims feel that inhumane treatment of animals is neither Islamic in every way nor halal. Therefore, Australia’s support for Indonesia to deal with this issue becomes very important and would be greatly appreciated.

http://m.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/06/09/australian-cattle-exports-indonesia-ban-or-assistance.html

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Wimmera Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 118	Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty Reply #9 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:05am Cods, I have no sympathy for the welfare of people who hang onto stone-age religious practices, be they Jews or Muslims. So, a good protein deprivation might shoot the message home. On the other hand, it probably wouldn't - which presents another possible solution, the subject of another thread, perhaps!
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cods

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #10 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:06am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

cods wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:31am:

I am not sure how anyone can do such a barbaric thing to be honest,what sort of people are they??

Cods, IF the halaal/kosher method is done correctly, the animal doesn't even notice the incisions...and simply passes out from lose of blood...no stress, no fear.

have you seem them do it giz?.. we dont do it like that anymore there must be a reason for that?. I know there is no nice way of killing a beast ,but we can put a man on the moon.... we can do better than this I feel.

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salad in

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #11 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:08am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:02am:

JEWISH and Muslim representatives appealed to Dutch lawmakers not to enforce plans requiring animals to be stunned before halaal and kosher slaughtering rituals.

What's wrong with the pansies of the West. Religious nutters like myself were told we were welcome in the West and so too were our totems. My religious manual says there is nothing wrong with slitting the throat of an animal.

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The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #12 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:08am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

cods wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:31am:

I am not sure how anyone can do such a barbaric thing to be honest,what sort of people are they??

Cods, IF the halaal/kosher method is done correctly, the animal doesn't even notice the incisions...and simply passes out from lose of blood...no stress, no fear.

As a kid, I watched my uncle (a sheep farmer) kill a sheep in this method

Done CORRECTLY - with a VERY sharp knife - the animal suffers NO pain or stress

This method is standard practice by sheep farmers - in AUSTRALIA - for personal consumption and filling the home freezer

It SOUNDS more gruesome than the REALITY

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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cods

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #13 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:09am

Wimmera wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:05am:

Cods, I have no sympathy for the welfare of people who hang onto stone-age religious practices, be they Jews or Muslims. So, a good protein deprivation might shoot the message home. On the other hand, it probably wouldn't - which presents another possible solution, the subject of another thread, perhaps! Wink

I understand wimmer but can you imagine these poor countries letting these animal free to roam if they cant sell them or eat them..

education and facilities I am thinking we can do better if we can provide $500.000 fro a school we can see they have proper slaughtering facilities. cant we?

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Wimmera

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Re: Jewish, Muslims and animal Cruelty
Reply #14 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:15am

Cods, I don't think it will matter one iota how much money is thrown at this problem. The nature of this type of beast is to revert to the 'old ways' when nobody is looking.

I am anti-live exports. I do not believe for a fistful of dollars, Australia should be condoning barbaric animal practices. Live exports from Australia should cease. The practice then should be banned worldwide on animal welfare grounds.

Ludwig should stick the boots into Meat & Livestock Australia. They have known about the disgusting cruelty for a very long time and have done nothing about it.

By live exports, I am referring to the meat trade.

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