Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Policy Paradigm (Read 1110 times)
Maqqa
Gold Member
*****
Offline


14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000
Policy Paradigm
Jun 18th, 2011 at 5:28pm
 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/truth-is-that-garnau...

ROSS Garnaut has the policy paradigm, and a lot else, completely wrong on the Gillard government's proposed carbon tax. He sees it as a battle between the forces of economic reform, in the tradition of the Hawke, Keating and early Howard governments, and the old pre-Hawke, anti-reform days.

This is dead wrong. Rather, the Gillard government is trying to move Australia's political economy towards a European model.

Like the US, we understand that wealth is not a given but has to be created, whereas Europeans assume national wealth can always be further taxed and regulated in the interests of some allegedly moralistic cause.

Nowhere in the world does Australia suffer any serious reputational damage from its climate policies or its asylum-seeker policies, except for small parts of the European elites.

The first and most important thing about the carbon tax is that it makes government much bigger. It gives government a lot more money. In an almost perfect inversion of normal usage, Garnaut trashes anybody who objects to a big, new tax as a sectional interest, whereas, in perfect socialist European terminology, those in favour of a giant new tax are supporting "the national interest". In his deeply flawed report, Garnaut gives almost perfect Australian expression to the European sensibility. Garnaut's description of the international environment is wilfully misleading and flatly contradicted by the much more impressive Productivity Commission report.

There is also something profoundly offensive to democratic practice in the way the Gillard government has shovelled out vast amounts of public money to long-term friends of the Labor Party, such as Garnaut and Tim Flannery, so that, with a wholly spurious and confected institutional credibility, they can declare: government good, opposition bad.

Garnaut tells us that Australia is a laggard on climate policy, in danger of being left behind, that we have done less than other developed countries. But the Productivity Commission, restricted to surveying a group of countries already skewed towards those who would do more on greenhouse emissions, finds that we are about in the middle, that our efforts are fully commensurate with the US and China.

These conclusions cannot both be true. One is right, one is wrong.

Like Garnaut, I have no qualifications or expertise in climate science, but I have followed a lot of international agreements through several decades of work in international affairs. One thing I know for sure is that grandiloquent pledges to lofty goals are never met. Part of the dishonesty of the Garnaut report is that it takes the windiest, or to put it more politely, most ambitious, pledges of other countries and accepts them as proven policy.

This sleight of hand underlies the whole misleading picture that Garnaut gives of the world. He even claims that the collapse of efforts for a legally binding climate change agreement at Copenhagen was really a wonderful breakthrough because it led to a pledge and review situation instead, in which countries are now more ambitious in their pledges. To take this seriously you'd have to be barking mad. Countries can be as ambitious as they like at the declaratory level and take no action about it at all.

I lost a great deal of respect for Garnaut when, on ABC1's Lateline recently, he attacked Opposition Leader Tony Abbott as arguing in favour of ignorance. Garnaut's report shows a disturbing slide into egomania, with a Kim Jong-il-like introduction about how in one meeting he brought a smile, a lifting of the spirits and a recognition of the truth to the Prime Minister and associated politicians. This is really slightly nutty.

But ageing professors often decline into self-glorifying tics and gestures. His attack on Abbott was different. Garnaut has every right to be insulting, patronising, condescending and shrilly partisan. We're a free society and it's fair enough to criticise Abbott. But it is surely an offence against the spirit of democracy if the government pays you a vast amount of money as a provider of allegedly independent policy advice and you then behave as a partisan barracker. The government is essentially trying to con Australians into thinking the whole world is going down this carbon tax route. Yet the Productivity Commission points out: "No country imposes an economy-wide tax on greenhouse gases or has in place an economy-wide ETS."

The dynamics of the carbon tax debate are similar now to those of the illegal immigrant-boatpeople debate.

There is a great divide between the evangelical elites and ordinary people with common sense and prudence. It is the very essence of common sense to see what costs comparable countries are imposing and move at a comparable speed. This does not justify a unique carbon tax for Australia.

I travel a good deal in Asia, the US and the Middle East, and climate change barely figures in the popular debates in those countries, which means that their governments are not under much pressure to do anything.

Back to top
 

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
IP Logged
 
Maqqa
Gold Member
*****
Offline


14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #1 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 5:31pm
 
Why did I highlighted those sentences?

Consider this when reading it:

(1) What sort of crap is Europe in at the moment and we are copying them?

(2) Land size is the key to some of Europe's reform - Australia is 3 times the size of Europe so implementing their policies won't work as well in Australia

(3) The Greens are especially strong in Europe - and they assume national wealth should be taxed the crap out for every moralistic/idealistic cause
Back to top
 

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
IP Logged
 
philperth2010
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20669
Perth
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #2 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 5:57pm
 
Like the US, we understand that wealth is not a given but has to be created, whereas Europeans assume national wealth can always be further taxed and regulated in the interests of some allegedly moralistic cause.


I agree Australia is in danger of becoming more and more like the USA.....I think this is a tragedy and highlights where Australia has gone wrong with its foreign policy and attempt by the Howard government to introduce American style education health and industrial policies.....Only a fool would attack Europe and praise the Yanks over social and economic policy.....This line of thinking is in line with his boss Rupert Murdoch who uses his influence to shape public opinion.....The right wing faithful see no self serving interest in the fact News Ltd are not independent and are pushing an agenda.....The editor of the Australian thinks personal wealth is more important than the collective well being of the nation......Greg Sheridan is a typical conservative wanker in the News Ltd tradition!!!

Wink
Back to top
 

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
IP Logged
 
BatteriesNotIncluded
Gold Member
*****
Offline


MediocrityNET: because
people died for this!

Posts: 26966
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #3 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 5:59pm
 
I'm sure Greg Sheridan would make an excellent real-estate agent however!!!!  Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Back to top
 

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
IP Logged
 
philperth2010
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20669
Perth
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #4 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 6:13pm
 
Maqqa wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 5:31pm:
Why did I highlighted those sentences?

Consider this when reading it:

(1) What sort of crap is Europe in at the moment and we are copying them?

(2) Land size is the key to some of Europe's reform - Australia is 3 times the size of Europe so implementing their policies won't work as well in Australia

(3) The Greens are especially strong in Europe - and they assume national wealth should be taxed the crap out for every moralistic/idealistic cause


(1) America is also stuffed and has no policies to deliver it from the destruction caused by the Bush administration.....Australia has an economic advantage that must be taken advantage of to act while we can support change....Trying to spin a narrative that somehow America is better off than Europe is bullshit to say the least.....Europe is a collective of nations....Some worse than others!!!

(2) I see you count the Australian desert in your estimates......How many trees can we plant in the desert Macca???

(3) The Greens do not hold power in any European nation......The Conservatives are in power in the majority of nations throughout Europe.....The claim the Greens have any influence over the vast majority of European nations is a load of crap!!!



Wink
Back to top
 

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #5 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 6:57pm
 
Everyone knows Greg Sheridan sees America as the shining star.  He may as well simply move there.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
philperth2010
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20669
Perth
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #6 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:06pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 6:57pm:
Everyone knows Greg Sheridan sees America as the shining star.  He may as well simply move there.


He has also argued in support of the notion that George W. Bush will be judged one of the great presidents of the United States!!!

Lol!!!

Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
IP Logged
 
adelcrow
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #7 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:14pm
 
GWBush drove the USA into the deepest recession since the great depression so I wouldnt be singling out Europe. Its only Asia that has kept the worlds economy slowly ticking along and most of the leaders in the Asian countries are either dictators or corrupt vote riggers that repress and brutalise the populations in their countries.
Maqqa reckons we should follow their lead  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

Go the Bunnies
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #8 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:15pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 5:57pm:
Like the US, we understand that wealth is not a given but has to be created, whereas Europeans assume national wealth can always be further taxed and regulated in the interests of some allegedly moralistic cause.


I agree Australia is in danger of becoming more and more like the USA.....I think this is a tragedy and highlights where Australia has gone wrong with its foreign policy and attempt by the Howard government to introduce American style education health and industrial policies.....Only a fool would attack Europe and praise the Yanks over social and economic policy.....This line of thinking is in line with his boss Rupert Murdoch who uses his influence to shape public opinion.....The right wing faithful see no self serving interest in the fact News Ltd are not independent and are pushing an agenda.....The editor of the Australian thinks personal wealth is more important than the collective well being of the nation......Greg Sheridan is a typical conservative wanker in the News Ltd tradition!!!

Wink


About the only place more mired in economic crap than USA is Europe. But the Productivity Report contradicted Garnaut. So who is right?? The facts are that NO WHERE has an economy-wide carbon tax or ETS like Gillard is proposing. that be an undeniable fact.
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #9 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:17pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 6:57pm:
Everyone knows Greg Sheridan sees America as the shining star.  He may as well simply move there.


He has also argued in support of the notion that George W. Bush will be judged one of the great presidents of the United States!!!

Lol!!!

Roll Eyes


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
philperth2010
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20669
Perth
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #10 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:21pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:15pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 5:57pm:
Like the US, we understand that wealth is not a given but has to be created, whereas Europeans assume national wealth can always be further taxed and regulated in the interests of some allegedly moralistic cause.


I agree Australia is in danger of becoming more and more like the USA.....I think this is a tragedy and highlights where Australia has gone wrong with its foreign policy and attempt by the Howard government to introduce American style education health and industrial policies.....Only a fool would attack Europe and praise the Yanks over social and economic policy.....This line of thinking is in line with his boss Rupert Murdoch who uses his influence to shape public opinion.....The right wing faithful see no self serving interest in the fact News Ltd are not independent and are pushing an agenda.....The editor of the Australian thinks personal wealth is more important than the collective well being of the nation......Greg Sheridan is a typical conservative wanker in the News Ltd tradition!!!

Wink


About the only place more mired in economic crap than USA is Europe. But the Productivity Report contradicted Garnaut. So who is right?? The facts are that NO WHERE has an economy-wide carbon tax or ETS like Gillard is proposing. that be an undeniable fact.


No other country is in the enviable economic position that Australia is in.....If Australia does not take advantage of its economic situation and allows this opportunity to be missed we will fall back to the pack.....Who in their right mind would not want Australia to move to a low carbon economy that has the opportunity to embrace renewable energy???

Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
IP Logged
 
adelcrow
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #11 - Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:26pm
 
Eventually countries will be more energy self sufficient and our coal industry will die a slow death.
Its a good idea to accept that now and to cultivate new industries...how about investing in industries of the future like renewable energy, communications etc  Smiley
Back to top
 

Go the Bunnies
 
IP Logged
 
boogieman
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 307
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #12 - Jun 19th, 2011 at 9:02am
 
Another bloody cut 'n paster who has to write a separate post answering himself.

I don't think you understand the concept of reading a news report mate.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Please delete
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Please delete this smacking
PROFILE

Posts: 2936
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #13 - Jun 19th, 2011 at 9:05am
 
"Australia is 3 times the size of Europe"

Really?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Maqqa
Gold Member
*****
Offline


14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000
Re: Policy Paradigm
Reply #14 - Jun 19th, 2011 at 9:08am
 
Please delete wrote on Jun 19th, 2011 at 9:05am:
"Australia is 3 times the size of Europe"

Really?



gr8 catch  Wink

But do you know what the population density is?

Australia - 7.3 per sq km

Europe - 70 per sq km
Back to top
 

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print