Australian Politics Forum - The tobacco industry and plain packaging

adelcrow

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male

The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Jun 25^th, 2011 at 6:40pm

The tobacco industry has been fighting plain packaging around the world using the same tactics.
This link outlines how why and what the industry does in every country that tries to bring in plain packaging.
Australia will be the first in the world to introduce it, but they are not the first ones to try.

http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_726.pdf

Back to top

Go the Bunnies

IP Logged

astro_surf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2981	Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging Reply #1 - Jun 25^th, 2011 at 7:41pm Thanks for that. Will make interesting reading, see what else the government can expect. It certainly rings true just glancing over it; set up fake retailer lobby groups, try to couch the argument in terms of individual rights, legal challenges. It's all there.
Back to top	Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am: So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&& IP Logged

adelcrow

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #2 - Jun 25^th, 2011 at 8:08pm

ash.org.uk have heaps on their site taken straight from big tobacco internal documents.
Abbott should have known better than to just repeat what he knows is lies and well worn propaganda trotted out time and time again by big tobacco.
It all shows why big tobacco is so afraid of plain packaging and why they are so afraid of the first country with the courage to introduce it.

Back to top

Go the Bunnies

IP Logged

cactus

New Member

Offline

please keep replys short
- I get bored easily.

Posts: 9

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #3 - Jun 25^th, 2011 at 8:20pm

I think the government should take it one more step and show dead fish, trees, cattle and sick children on drums of pesticides and other strong chemicals used in industry. Oh, and on cans of fly spray in the supermarket also. I'm all for making the user of dangerous chemicals aware of the use/misuse of such items - Maybe even the adorable pleading eyes of calves on meat trays in the supermarket also.

It's time we came from behind our self-imposed ignorance and take responsibility for our choices in life. We don't necessarily need governments telling us what we can and can't do, to an extent, but making us aware of the consequences of our choices is probably all that is needed.

Back to top

...life imitates life...

IP Logged

PlayersPlay

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 378

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #4 - Jun 26^th, 2011 at 1:18am

cactus wrote on Jun 25^th, 2011 at 8:20pm:

I think the government should take it one more step and show dead fish, trees, cattle and sick children on drums of pesticides and other strong chemicals used in industry. Oh, and on cans of fly spray in the supermarket also. I'm all for making the user of dangerous chemicals aware of the use/misuse of such items - Maybe even the adorable pleading eyes of calves on meat trays in the supermarket also.

It's time we came from behind our self-imposed ignorance and take responsibility for our choices in life. We don't necessarily need governments telling us what we can and can't do, to an extent, but making us aware of the consequences of our choices is probably all that is needed.

...so, black market tobacco?

This line won't get you far................... Grin

Back to top

Now! How...?

IP Logged

adelcrow

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #5 - Jun 26^th, 2011 at 9:03am

Of course the difference is none of the above is sold purely for its chroniclly addictive qualities and if used as intended will prematurely kill 50% of its users.
How many responsible adults take up smoking for the first time? Almost none, getting children addicted to nicotine to replace their constantly dying market is the aim of the tobacco companies and packaging is one of the main tools for this.
Big tobacco has admitted this in internal communications..the proof is there for all to read.

Back to top

Go the Bunnies

IP Logged

gizmo_2655

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16010
South West NSW
Gender: male

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #6 - Jun 27^th, 2011 at 8:24am

"Tobacco giant to take legal actionAAP
June 27, 2011, 5:41 am tweet0EmailPrint
International tobacco giant Philip Morris will take legal action to try and force the Gillard government to back down on its plain-packaging legislation.

"We don't take legal action lightly, but we have no other option. We believe we have a very strong legal case," spokeswoman for the company, Anne Edwards, told the Australian newspaper on Monday.

The legal action by the company, which manufactures brands such as Marlboro and Peter Jackson, will occur under a bilateral investment treaty between Australia and Hong Kong.

The company will argue that because it's Australian operation is owned by Philip Morris Asia (PMA), which is based in Hong Kong, the plain-packaging legislation will adversely impact upon an investment protected by the treaty.

The notice of claim to be served on Monday will start a three-month period of negotiation and if there is no resolution the matter will proceed to arbitration.

"PMA will be seeking the loss in value of its investments in Australia that will result from plain packaging," Ms Edwards said.

"The damages may amount to billions of dollars."

Federal Health Minister Nicola Roxon has pledged to introduce and pass the legislation this year and have it operational by January.

The legislation will ban all commercial branding from cigarettes, mandating olive-green packaging with prominent health warnings."

Back to top

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

IP Logged

boogieman

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 307

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #7 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 9:26pm

adelcrow wrote on Jun 25^th, 2011 at 6:40pm:

The tobacco industry has been fighting plain packaging around the world using the same tactics.
This link outlines how why and what the industry does in every country that tries to bring in plain packaging.
Australia will be the first in the world to introduce it, but they are not the first ones to try.

http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_726.pdf

Tobacco would win such a legal issue I'm afraid.

Govt can't ban baccy as it would just create a larger black market than there already is. That homegron baccy though is healthier than what is sold over the counter as it is baccy, no chemicals. So that would be a ste forward but more criminals would be created for nothing really.

You could jump the tax so much people couldn't afford them so they would go black market anyway. But that would drive the companies out at least.

Best is a long term strategy. Allow those who need to smoke now to continue but only on presciption by a doc. That way no new smokers will appear and people will get sick of going to a doc then the shop for smokes.

It's tough I know as when I was smoking, every time someon e told me to stop I just hardened my resolve and said I'll do what I want. Dumb but you can't tell people what to do if they don't want to do it.

Just some thoughts.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58828 Here Gender:	Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging Reply #8 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 9:53pm Interesting that I note the more reasonable sounding comments on this board against plain packaging are all in that document and have been disseminated by tobacco companies.
Back to top	IP Logged

PlayersPlay

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 378

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #9 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 10:02pm

adelcrow wrote on Jun 26^th, 2011 at 9:03am:

Of course the difference is none of the above is sold purely for its chroniclly addictive qualities and if used as intended will prematurely kill 50% of its users.
How many responsible adults take up smoking for the first time? Almost none, getting children addicted to nicotine to replace their constantly dying market is the aim of the tobacco companies and packaging is one of the main tools for this.
Big tobacco has admitted this in internal communications..the proof is there for all to read.

An irrefutable argument.... that's why the silver spooners don't waste their breathe trying to combat big tobaccos problems! NO ONE CRIES FOR BIG TOBACCO AS MANY A SILVER SPOONER KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO LOSE A DAD TO CANCER....

....LET ALONE A MUM....!!

Back to top

Now! How...?

IP Logged

PlayersPlay Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 378	Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging Reply #10 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 10:06pm UNIVERSAL LAST WISH OF A SMOKING CANCER VICTIM: "YOU CAN'T TELL ANYONE, SON! I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW!!" YEH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN WILL PEOPLE REALISE THIS IS THE UGLY REALITY....?!!? (THIS AINT NEWS TO QUITE A FEW OUT THERE UNFORTUNATELY........)
Back to top	Now! How...? IP Logged

gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging Reply #11 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 10:23pm Put the crack pipe down..back slowly away...do NOT make eye contact, do NOT run
Back to top	"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition. It's similar to a strawman fallacy" Bobbythebat IP Logged

PlayersPlay Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 378	Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging Reply #12 - Jun 30^th, 2011 at 4:50am gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2011 at 10:23pm: Put the crack pipe down..back slowly away...do NOT make eye contact, do NOT run ....many a liberal voting son/daughter have heard exactly that as a last request! TELL ME I'M LYING I DARE YOU!!!!
Back to top	Now! How...? IP Logged

revheadross

New Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16
Gender: male

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #13 - Jul 6^th, 2011 at 8:26pm

Alcohol companies also sell a highly addictive product which kills people (& destroys families ) , usually quicker though !! Where are all the bleeding heart nazis on this seemingly sacred cow ? We ought ALL not forget the Eureka Stockade , When injustice becomes law , resistance becomes duty . Wake up Australia , before we lose all our freedom , Protest , or DON’T vote & encourage the mongrels . WE are politicians employers , NOT the other way ’round .
Tolerance folks , leave the drinkers enjoy their choice , smokers theirs & politicians do what they do best , ie. feather their own nest & purvey half truths . This is the freedom our forbears fought & died for .

Back to top

There is no safe level of dogma

IP Logged

Equitist

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9632
NSW

Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #14 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 11:19am

Hmnnn....what are these legislative 'amendments' of which Tony Abbott speaks!?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/11/3266243.htm

Quote:

Big tobacco accused of sneak plain pack campaign

West Australian Federal MP Tony Crook has accused tobacco companies of recruiting people to call MPs anonymously and criticise proposed plain packaging laws.

The tobacco industry has vowed to fight proposed laws which would force them to sell cigarettes in plain packs with a large, graphic health warning, while a second bill will remove company trademarks from the packs.

Tony Crook says his office has received regular phone calls from people expressing anger over the plan.

The Nationals Member for O'Connor says he suspects the callers have been coached, because they always raise the same issues.

He says tobacco companies are intentionally trying to mislead people.

"Quite often when we've been speaking to people and talking to them about the issues they've actually agreed with us on many of the occasions, which is really quite interesting," he said.

Last week Health Minister Nicola Roxon introduced the plain packaging legislation for cigarettes into Parliament and said the Government would defend it from any legal threats.

The tobacco industry is warning of several legal challenges to the legislation in a move it says could cost the Government billions of dollars.

Tobacco giant Philip Morris is among the companies taking legal action over the laws.

It is accusing the Government of breaching a bilateral investment treaty with Hong Kong, where the company is based.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has said the Coalition will not oppose the legislation but may attempt to make amendments to ensure smoking rates really do drop.

Is Tony Abbott really prepared to take on Big Tobacco - or is this just more of the 'pollie-speak' to which he referred yesterday in relation to the Gillard Govt's Carbon Price plans!?

I doubt it, since he has to date declined to take the responsible pro-active step of prohibiting donations to his own Party by Big Tobacco!

Back to top

Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

IP Logged