Australian Politics Forum - The tobacco industry and plain packaging

Equitist

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #15 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 11:38am

Dunno who else has seen the cards being distributed far and wide, by Philip Morris, for distribution in newsagents, corner stores, bottleshops, etc....

Last week I picked up one of their over-sized 'business card' style cards at a local newsagent - it is black, yellow and white in colour and features the black on yellow caption "IT MAKES NO SENSE" on one side and a similar banner across the other, which reads: -

Have your say at
www.ideservetoobeheard.com.au

The card also states as follows: -

Quote:

Every state in Australia is making it illegal to
have cigarettes on display. So how will putting
them in plain packaging make any difference?

Cigarettes not on display, bans on outdoor smoking, increased
taxes and now plain packaging for cigarettes - what's next?
It's time to tell the government that you have had enough.

Following is a snapshot from the actual site...

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PHILIP_MORRIS_CAMPAIGN_SITE.JPG (106 KB | 30 )

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Equitist

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #16 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 11:54am

OK, I just attempted to use the site to send an email to my local MP - intending to tell her that I support he proposed plain packaging laws...

Alas! Such was not possible - there was no scope whatsoever to alter either of the 2 versions of the email available on the site!

Moreover, apparently the site automatically used my IP address to pick up on my locality - narrowed down to several surrounding suburbs!

Anyways, here's the 2 different versions of the email that I declined to send: -

Quote:

TP [MP]
FROM [Moi]

Dear Ms [MP]

I am writing to you as my elected Member of Parliament to voice my opposition to the proposed plain packaging legislation. Over the last several years, the Government has been unfairly targeting adult smokers like me with laws and regulations that have gone too far.

The latest in this series-plain packaging so that all cigarettes look the same-doesn't even make sense particularly given that cigarettes are hidden away in most shops across the country. I simply do not believe that plain packaging will stop or prevent people from taking up smoking. All it's going to do is make it more difficult and time consuming for me, and the shopkeepers serving me.

This is all for a policy that doesn't make sense and in my view will not work.

I've had enough of the Government interfering in my life and trying to control what I do! Everybody agrees that tobacco should be reasonably regulated, but these laws and regulations are just going too far.

The bottom line is: I'm an adult and I should have the right to make a choice to smoke without being punished.

It's time to stop picking on adult smokers and telling us how to lead our lives. I am writing to let you know I oppose plain packaging legislation and I urge you to do the same.

Regards

...

Quote:

TP [MP]
FROM [Moi]

Dear Ms [MP]

I write to express my disappointment at the introduction of the proposed legislation for plain packaging of cigarettes into the Parliament.

This is just another example of the Government ignoring my concerns and unfairly targeting me with laws and regulations that have gone too far.

Plain packaging doesn't even make sense, particularly given that cigarettes are hidden away in most shops across the country.

I simply do not believe that plain packaging will stop or prevent people from taking up smoking particularly given that the government itself has failed to provide any credible evidence to back up its claims. All it's going to do is make it more difficult and time consuming for me, and the shopkeepers serving me.

The Health Minister Nicola Roxon herself even admits that 'there is some level of experiment' with the plain packaging proposal.

Enough is enough! I urge you to vote against the proposed plain packaging legislation.

Regards

...

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging Reply #17 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 5:24pm I would simply give the tobacco industry 2 choices..plain packaging or a total ban on their product. See which one they pick
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Equitist

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #18 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 5:41pm

adelcrow wrote on Jul 11^th, 2011 at 5:24pm:

I would simply give the tobacco industry 2 choices..plain packaging or a total ban on their product.
See which one they pick Grin

Agreed! Meantime, I note that they are still running with the propaganda that the Oz Govt has been unable to provide any proof that the plain packaging proposal would work...

Notwithstanding the irony, that Big Tobacco's response to the policy is highly suggestive that they fear it would work, as I have previously suggested: -

Australia is a relatively small and isolated market of just over 20 million people (amongst millions if not billions who smoke around the world), which would provide the ideal real-world empirical test of the plain packaging hypothesis!

Therefore, Big Tobacco would have very little to worry about, should this 'experiment' in plain packaging go ahead!!!

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adelcrow

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #19 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 6:56pm

Anything that will slow the rate of children becoming addicted to tobacco is a good idea.
Lets face facts, people dont first take up smoking as adults, they do it as kids to impress their mates and packaging is a big part of marketing to those kids before they become addicted.
Big tobacco knows that once plain packaging is introduced anywhere in the world the flood gates will open and most if not all countries will adopt the idea.

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revheadross

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #20 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 9:00pm

The personal views expressed here will clearly continue .....regarding smoking , plain packaging of the product , etc. blah blah.. But folks ,the underlying premise still prevails in this country (I hope) that this is a society of free choice , within the bounds of the law. If any politicians have the courage , let them try to make this product illegal instead of the current high moral ground breast beating they are assaulting us with. That should go well !! Remember the prohibition fiasco ?? Gotta live in the real world people .At risk of being slightly off topic , I invite comment on similar treatment of another product , which , if abused demonstrably causes untold financial & social destruction . The product is alcohol by mouth. The comparison is an obvious one , because of harm caused , intentional hooking of young clients (check out the catchy fun TV ads still occurring ) etc. Just for the record I have no bone to pick in any of these areas . You pay your taxes & you take your chances . I don't think ecstasy or heroin comes in flashy packets but is still sought out due to the best advertising of all , Word of mouth & peer pressure !

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The_Barnacle

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #21 - Jul 24^th, 2011 at 10:47am

revheadross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

I invite comment on similar treatment of another product , which , if abused demonstrably causes untold financial & social destruction . The product is alcohol by mouth.

The big difference between them is that alcohol in moderation is harmless.
There is no safe level of cigarette smoking however. Even passive smoking has dangerous health effects.

The fact is that adults can still smoke if they wish to, the only difference will be that it will be from a generic package. What has big tobacco up in arms is that they will no longer be able to promote their brand using the packaging.

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revheadross

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #22 - Jul 24^th, 2011 at 6:51pm

Well there may be no "safe " level of smoking . But using common sense there is no "safe " level of alcohol consumption either . This is not merely an expressed personal opinion but an undeniable fact. Think about it , it involves introducing a flammable , toxic substance to delicate tissue (the liver etc. ) , & of course the expected damage results . The results in hospitals & care facilities bear this out . so , by deduction from zero consumption thru "moderate " & beyond , damage will be & is being done . Ask Derrin Hinch . Also "moderation " is a subjective term & viewed differently from person to person . My issue is why one legal product is being targeted in this way & others are not . Childrens junk food marketing is an obvious comparison . Very visual multi media marketing is causing the national disgrace of obese ankle biters we see today . No moderation there ! the kid makes a choice based on packages & we see the resulting health issues . What is done? .....NOTHING . the further we look the more disparity we find . Politicians on their perceived high moral ground rant will ignore the resolve & voting power of smokers (& any other target groups ) at their peril . Long live free choice . that's what my country used to be about !!

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The_Barnacle

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #23 - Jul 24^th, 2011 at 9:51pm

revheadross wrote on Jul 24^th, 2011 at 6:51pm:

Well there may be no "safe " level of smoking . But using common sense there is no "safe " level of alcohol consumption either .

The recommended safe level of alcohol intake for men is a maximum of 4 standard drinks per day. For women it is 2 standard drinks per day.
http://www.gastro.net.au/diets/alcohol.html

The recommended safe level of smoking is ZERO.

Children's junk food is another case of a product being harmless in moderation.

Quote:

Long live free choice . that's what my country used to be about !!

You still have the free choice to smoke cigarettes and of any brand you desire. The product will be the same. The only difference will be that the cigarette will be in a generic package.

Why are you concerned about the packaging? the product inside will still be the same.

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revheadross

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #24 - Jul 25^th, 2011 at 8:05pm

To recommend a "safe " level of consumption of any product should tell you that it does do harm !! All we're talking about therefore is the degree of harm , comensurate with level of consumption . Childrens junk food (the name says it all ) is a glaring example of targeted packaging hooking the prey en masse and producing the nation of obese , sickness prone kids we see today . Of course these things in "moderation " will cause less harm , but in a lot of real world situations there is clearly no "moderation " Pie in the sky theories and wish lists clearly do not change irrefutable facts and observations .I am not concerned about the packaging of tobacco products , but authors of pro change sentiment certainly seem to be building up a head of steam about it , which is futile as it won't change a thing except to give one or two devious , self serving politicians a nice warm feeling . You should be more concerned with instilling parental values & advice into kids to encourage them to ignore most ,if not all , advertising and peer pressure to experiment with REALLY dangerous stuff out there .

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The_Barnacle

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #25 - Jul 25^th, 2011 at 8:20pm

revheadross wrote on Jul 25^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

To recommend a "safe " level of consumption of any product should tell you that it does do harm !!

Well actually no it doesn't. You are just playing with semantics.

The fact remains that alcohol and junk food can be consumed at safe levels. On the other hand there is NO safe level of cigarette smoking.

You haven't answered my question about why the packaging should concern you so much when the cigarettes inside them will remain the same.

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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging Reply #26 - Jul 25^th, 2011 at 8:26pm Phillip Morris employee
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revheadross

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #27 - Jul 25^th, 2011 at 9:02pm

Really ? ....To say that "Well actually no it doesn't " indicates no grasp of facts or language ,sadly . If it is indicated that there is a "safe" level , clearly by extension , there is an unsafe level . No question about that , or semantics involved Smoking , drinking alcohol, eating unhealthy food , breathing low quality air and a myriad of other things we do in life DO produce harmful effects to varying degrees . it's our choice . It's also accepted & legal practice for a business to promote it's equally legal product . What I find wrong here is the targetting of one legal product in this discriminatory way and ignoring other sacred cows . I'm happy with the current situation re packaging , not seeking to force change , you seem to be upset .Retailers have had to cover tobacco displays , so no one will be cajoled by packaging . Just a quick question to dsmithy 70 . What did you mean by your post " Phillip Morris employee ?"

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« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2011 at 2:25pm by revheadross »

There is no safe level of dogma

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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging Reply #28 - Jul 25^th, 2011 at 9:11pm I a bit perplexed, whats your issue, if you are a smoker you will still be able to buy the smokes you like just not in the pretty packet. You'll still be able to puff away on two packs a day if you want, or roll your own if thats your thing, as I said nothing changes to you personally. So what's the issue?
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revheadross

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Re: The tobacco industry and plain packaging
Reply #29 - Jul 25^th, 2011 at 9:30pm

You certainly are a bit perplexed . I don't have an issue . I just don't get the push to change packaging on a legal recreational product and not others which similarly can cause detrimental effects on health & lifestyle etc . To reiterate , I don't have an issue , just responding to a movement which does . I'm the one who's happy remember . If you're a drinker , and all booze was in a brown bottle , you can still enjoy a slab or two a day or a bottle of nice bourbon, same thing . Trouble is though , if you drink at that level you'll do yourself some harm . Your choice though .

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There is no safe level of dogma

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