For those who say that their nationally is the excuse to participate in activities that are currently deemed 'un-islamic' i would ask why would you support activities that act against the core of what your nation is built on, that being the community? If your nations' economy would collapse without drinking, gambling, porn, and prostitution would you be honestly able to believe that you live in a nation and are of equal value to every other citizen in that nation, or at least are equal to everyone else in your community (if you are actually in one)??
Are you the citizen of a nation or a member of staff in a anything for a buck corporation or some fringe dweller in a soweto type shantytown?

OK lets go through the bellyaches quickly.....

Islam is against drinking!
So are some other christian sects, so is alcoholics anonymous, cops and paramedics who have to attend motor accidents because some front bottom guzzled a bucket of beer and got behind the wheel. Doctors tend to feel the same when they treat alcoholics for liver damage or treat people who get beer bottles busted over their heads by the usual binge drinkers who hit the streets every friday and saturday night.

Islam is against gambling!
So are some other christian sects, so is gamblers anonymous as well as charities that have to deal with individuals and families that live on the breadline because of the psychological compulsion of 1 or 2 family members. Do some people gamble for recreation or the thrill? Some not all, most people do so because they dont believe they have any other way to make a decent sum of money to support their families/selves.

Islam is against pork!
FFS is eating pig meat that smacking important to you! Every Christmas people binge out on drink, pork and shellfish and every Christmas the hospitals fill up with slobs suffering food poisoning. I'm not pro or anti pork either way, if you like guzzling beer and gulping hot dogs then dont blame muslims if you end up in hospital with coronary problems. Muslims didnt force you to eat it and nor would they.

Islam is against adultery!
I thought that marriage was between 2 people, apparantley not in the West. You can say 'I do', walk out of the church and straight into a brothel or go bugger the local football team and it is your legal right to. People bitch that islam is against sex, well when you see how quicker and larger muslim generations reproduce I would say that is hardly the case. How they behave on the street and how they behave in the bedroom are 2 different things.

So are the 'unacceptable' islamic values actually just common sense? Well....does not the West have education systems that indoctrinate their children (victims???) not to use common sense and actually to oppose it?....or else redefine it?

Lets look at other things islam haters use.....

Islam is an arab religion for arabs only!
Wrong. Only 15% of muslims are arab (by race), you might throw in another 10% for half castes and mongrels as well as those who are arab by culture eg. Berbers, Somalis etc. Wonder why it is forbidden to draw Mohammed? Well according to the few written descriptions about him he had red/auburn hair and his nephew Ali (Nazrath Ali) had brown hair, hardly the traits of todays arabs. Chances are that when the golden horde left a good deal of dna as they swept through. Just like todays 'jews' largely are not descendants of Biblical era Israelites, todays arabs are most likely not pure semites. Does this make Mohammed a different dna makeup as compared to todays arabs? Maybe, but linguistically and culturally they are both still arabs. If islam was for arabs (at least by biogocal race) only then the numbers of muslims would be reduced by 75%.
Islam was originally about returning people to the God of Abraham, it regarded judaism and christianity as taken a wrong turn (cant disagree). It recognised that some jews and christians were practicing their faith as it was meant to be and that these people were already muslims even though they didnt realise it.
A muslim is a muslim regardless of whatever language, race or culture they use/practice as long as they adhere to the principles of islam.

Islam is full of terrorists!
What the bugger is the difference between a 200lb truck bomb detonating in a city street and a 200lb bomb being dropped on the same location by a jet? And what is the difference between those doing the deed?
I suppose it depends on whose interests they serve.

Example....
The invasion and occupation of iraq was deemed to be the decent thing to do, those who ordered it knew it was the financial thing to do (self interest, improving the lifestyle). When casualties began increasing among the occupational nations then the calls of 'islamic barbarians' started in earnest. Same people said that iraq must be occupied because it was 'the right thing to do', 'necessary for democracy' and.....'the christian thing to do'
If the vested interests who were looking for financial gain had their way then there would have been porn shops and sleazy bars on every street corner and probably a smacking casino in baghdad. Does this sound 'christian' to you? I suppose for most of the 'christians' who rebirth themselves whenever the issue of islam comes up then the answer would probably be yes (only because it opposes their atheist lifestyle)
Was it a christian thing to do? No.
Was it the atheist thing to do? Absolutely.

leon_the_14,

Thank you for your considered thoughts on the faults, of all those persons who profess a faith in the God of Abraham.





In response...

On your Christian 'acquaintance', who went to assert his own cultural rights, in a halal restaurant.

I ask, was your Christian acquaintance 14 years old ?

That is to say, your description of him did 'paint' him as being juvenile.



On the vices and error of those who refer to themselves as Christians, Jesus had this to say....

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What is the will of God ???

Jesus said it was this;

Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And;

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

+++

You told us of the Bosnian moslem who didn't like 'Lebs'.

And stated that the conflict between the Bosnian moslem, and the 'Leb', had a racial component.

Thank you.


But you did not appear to address or acknowledge the cause of the often very open moslem enmity for non-moslems....that moslem enmity [for non-moslems] as sourced from within ISLAM, and that is 'resident' within all moslem communities ???

Why the omission ?

Don't you think that in your discourse, you should address the reasons why, ISLAMIC doctrines compel, and encourage, moslems to always be in conflict with those who are not moslems ???

i.e.
Why did you 'overlook' the actual 'sanctification' of moslem violence against those who are not moslems, as is evident within the Koran, and the Hadith....

Dictionary;
sanctify = =
1 consecrate.
2 make legitimate or binding by religious sanction.
3 free from sin.
4 give the appearance of being right or good.




"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196



+++

As for your assertion, of there being only one God, i agree.

But, imo, the God who inspired the Koran, is not THAT God.



To confirm that hypothesis of mine, all you need do, is compare what is stated within the Koran [by the God called Allah],
....and then compare that, with what is stated in the OT Bible, by the God of Abraham.

you can see my exposition on that topic, here....

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1305553526/211#211

Quote:

Nope, but typical of a left winger

Quote:

I believe all muslim/non muslim conflict is of a racial nature except when it occurs within racial groups. Here it is lebs vs everyone else, within muslim groups it is also racial eg. lebs vs turks

Quote:

There is only one God, none of the prophets renounced the message of those who came before them.

As for muslim enmity for non muslims...it should be directed at atheists and pagans, add the Jesus is god televangelists as well.

Quote:

Where does Mohammed acknowledge this?
Are you a submitter?

Quote:

The method of execution is not important.
'Cheating child brides?' Assuming due process such as a fair trial and non bias in laying charges has been done. Then I wouldnt oppose it, if it the standard punishment practiced by that racial group/community then it is not up to me to interfere as I wouldnt want that group to interfere with my community.
If it were in my community then I would want all the facts before saying yes or no to any charges or sentence.

Quote:

Provided due process in charge and trial has been done then I wouldnt oppose it. After all, atheists would quite happily kill believers.

Quote:

Dunno.....ask someone who lived in an eastern bloc country. Or better still ring someone in N.Korea, their first hand experience should be truthful.

Quote:

Nope in that situation anything goes, I would look at the racial grouping of your community and retaliate appropriately.

Quote:

Stated before that I'm not a muslim.
Most mosques dont like/welcome whites, again I point out the issue of enmity is racial.

Quote:

Ah yes, if you cant explain it in your own words....then google is your friend.

As for Beslan, the Ossetians were targeted because of their race. They are an Aryan people, the chechens, ingushes, arabs and other filth are Turanians.
But they got their shelter space in the country of their Turanian brothers -that being 'christian' Georgia.

Just like Bilal Skaf and his gang and the rapes that still occur to this day, but its not PC to mention them. Are you going to tell me that all the offenders were exclusively muslim? They were both leb christians and muslims, they are racially motivated.
It is lebs (circassian/arab mixes) against whites (mostly aryan).

As for the egyptian problems, that is due mostly to corruption as well as there being a racial element. Copts still retain a Greek/Maltese element to their culture and with some to their immediate ancestry.

Stop trying to blame religion for racial problems that would still occur even if it wasnt there.

Quote:

Since when is 'muslim' a race?
There is no biological basis for that claim, the same way that 'muslims' cannot claim to be discriminated against because of it.
Unless they wish to claim the marxist 'race is a social concept' mantra, in that case they are not muslims but apostates.

leon_the_14 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2011 at 1:29pm:



So, it doesn't matter that ISLAM, the 'religion', promotes violence towards, and intolerance of, all non-moslems.
[e.g. Koran 2.98  Koran 9.123]

So, it doesn't matter that ISLAM is a vicious political and 'religious' tyranny, which has always encouraged the murder of its critics.
[e.g. Koran 5.33  Koran 33.60,61]

So, it doesn't matter that ISLAM encourages, as a 'virtue', political and 'religious' fascism.
[e.g. Koran 9.29  Koran 3.85]



Because those who oppose ISLAM are NOT motivated by any sense of outrage at the injustices which are being promoted by ISLAM, and its followers.

Those who are critical of, and oppose ISLAM, are motivated by [their] racism, and are clearly racists.
/sarc off



+++



"....
Hostility Disguised As Grievance
In their statements directed at European or American audiences, Islamists maintain that the terrorism they direct against the West is merely reciprocal treatment for decades of Western and Israeli oppression. Yet in writings directed to their fellow Muslims, this animus is presented, not as a reaction to military or political provocation but as a product of religious obligation."
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war


Google;


Google;




+++




OBL

ISLAM's way of achieving 'peace' explained - according to Osama Bin Laden...
OR,
Advice to real moslems, on how to be 'rightly guided' in your worldly relationships with infidels.

November 10, 2008
Raymond Ibrahim: "Islam's Doctrines of Deception"
Quote:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/11/raymond-ibrahim-islams-doctrines-of-deception....



n.b. the words....


Translation....

If the hatred for non-moslems, at any time extinguishes from the heart of a moslem, "this is great apostasy!"

i.e.
You can only be a REAL moslem, if you have a burning HATRED for non-moslems.




THE TRUTH....

Moslems will claim that those who oppose moslem violence [to spread ISLAM], are 'racists'.

Moslems will claim that those who oppose moslem supremacism, are 'racists'.

Because, it is those 'racist' non-moslems who resist the spread of the influence of ISLAM, which cause moslem violence.  [<---- moslem 'logic' expressed]


Google;