Australian Politics Forum - The Good Life

Sappho Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1406 Gender:	The Good Life - Atheist Style Jul 7^th, 2011 at 2:53pm What is the Good Life? And once we know it, or think we know it, or have a compelling opinion upon it, how to we seek it?
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style Reply #1 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:10pm Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 2:53pm: What is the Good Life? And once we know it, or think we know it, or have a compelling opinion upon it, how to we seek it? IMO what constitutes the good life is the same no matter what your faith.
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Sappho Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1406 Gender:	Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style Reply #2 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:14pm ... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:10pm: IMO what constitutes the good life is the same no matter what your faith. And that is
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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #3 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:22pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:14pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:10pm:

IMO what constitutes the good life is the same no matter what your faith.

And that is Questioning

Well we've all got rules or principles we beleive we should follow, whether they be of our own making or relayed from 'god'.
Living 'the good life' doesn't take too much conscious thought - I dunno bout you, but if I live according to my principles, everything just falls into place. The trick is having the ability and the courage to carry on the way you know you should.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #4 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:39pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:22pm:

Well we've all got rules or principles we beleive we should follow, whether they be of our own making or relayed from 'god'.
Living 'the good life' doesn't take too much conscious thought - I dunno bout you, but if I live according to my principles, everything just falls into place. The trick is having the ability and the courage to carry on the way you know you should.

Yes but what is the Good Life to which your principles are formed. I don't think it is the same for the Religious and Atheists. The good life for Religious entails god and obedience to that entity. Atheists have no such concerns.

For me for example, The Good Life, is about reducing harm, increasing pleasure and developing meaningful relationships/friendships with others and my principles and morals are drawn from that belief.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #5 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:51pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:39pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:22pm:

Well we've all got rules or principles we beleive we should follow, whether they be of our own making or relayed from 'god'.
Living 'the good life' doesn't take too much conscious thought - I dunno bout you, but if I live according to my principles, everything just falls into place. The trick is having the ability and the courage to carry on the way you know you should.

Yes but what is the Good Life to which your principles are formed. I don't think it is the same for the Religious and Atheists. The good life for Religious entails god and obedience to that entity. Atheists have no such concerns.

For me for example, The Good Life, is about reducing harm and increasing pleasure and my principles and morals are drawn from that belief.

Regardless of what your principles are, living according to them is what constitutes 'the good life'. To put it as simply as I can, my principles are based around a belief that man is simply another part of the natural world, not over and above it. So all our wants and dreams can be reduced to manifestations of the same animal instincts and impulses that any other beast lives by.
In nature, generally the role of the male is to a) reproduce and b) provide security for their group. So I've fulfilled part a, now my one and only true calling is to ensure they survive and thrive. Everything else is window dressing.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #6 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:57pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 3:51pm:

Regardless of what your principles are, living according to them is what constitutes 'the good life'. To put it as simply as I can, my principles are based around a belief that man is simply another part of the natural world, not over and above it. So all our wants and dreams can be reduced to manifestations of the same animal instincts and impulses that any other beast lives by.
In nature, generally the role of the male is to a) reproduce and b) provide security for their group. So I've fulfilled part a, now my one and only true calling is to ensure they survive and thrive. Everything else is window dressing.

I think you are confusing The Meaning of Life, with, The Good Life. Absolutely, it is the case that the meaning of life for humans and other animals is survival, but for humans we can go further than that to explore Goodness, not in the shallow sense, but in a mindful sense which the religious would call a soulful sense. Other animals can't contemplate such things. This is one of the things that separates our species from all the rest.

So, when I ask, What is the Good Life, I am asking what is the Goodness to which we should strive in our principles and morals. It is not about survival to which procreation is a part thereof.

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style Reply #7 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:03pm Then I will have to ask - goodness according to whom? Surely our own impressions of what is 'good' is all that matters? I mean, don't supposedly evil people think that what they do or believe is 'right'? I don't belive in absolute good or evil. They are all relative to ones own standpoint.
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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #8 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:36pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Then I will have to ask - goodness according to whom? Surely our own impressions of what is 'good' is all that matters? I mean, don't supposedly evil people think that what they do or believe is 'right'? I don't belive in absolute good or evil. They are all relative to ones own standpoint.

Well, we could same the same of nearly every word in existence. What is existence and existence according to whom? What is 'same' and 'same' according to whom? What is 'love' and 'love' according to whom? What is 'living' and 'living' according to whom? Ad infinitum... almost.

However, when we start discussing such things, commonalities present between people and their concepts. We take those commonalities and use them as the defining characteristics, being mindful that others may add further to that meaning that what the 'common' meaning dictates.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #9 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:43pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:36pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Then I will have to ask - goodness according to whom? Surely our own impressions of what is 'good' is all that matters? I mean, don't supposedly evil people think that what they do or believe is 'right'? I don't belive in absolute good or evil. They are all relative to ones own standpoint.

Well, we could same the same of nearly every word in existence. What is existence and existence according to whom? What is 'same' and 'same' according to whom? What is 'love' and 'love' according to whom? What is 'living' and 'living' according to whom? Ad infinitum... almost.

However, when we start discussing such things, commonalities present between people and their concepts. We take those commonalities and use them as the defining characteristics, being mindful that others may add further to that meaning that what the 'common' meaning dictates.

But go back in time even as little as 20 years - what is the epitome of evil now was all rather 'meh' then. Conversely, communism was regarded as the ultimate evil then, but nowadays in some circles it's the answer to all our problems.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #10 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:56pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:36pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Then I will have to ask - goodness according to whom? Surely our own impressions of what is 'good' is all that matters? I mean, don't supposedly evil people think that what they do or believe is 'right'? I don't belive in absolute good or evil. They are all relative to ones own standpoint.

Well, we could same the same of nearly every word in existence. What is existence and existence according to whom? What is 'same' and 'same' according to whom? What is 'love' and 'love' according to whom? What is 'living' and 'living' according to whom? Ad infinitum... almost.

However, when we start discussing such things, commonalities present between people and their concepts. We take those commonalities and use them as the defining characteristics, being mindful that others may add further to that meaning that what the 'common' meaning dictates.

But go back in time even as little as 20 years - what is the epitome of evil now was all rather 'meh' then. Conversely, communism was regarded as the ultimate evil then, but nowadays in some circles it's the answer to all our problems.

But we are not talking about evil. Evil has no bearing on the discussion at hand. And what you say of the word evil, cannot be said of the word good. So again, your digress into semantics doesn't actually address the topic.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #11 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:04pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:36pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Then I will have to ask - goodness according to whom? Surely our own impressions of what is 'good' is all that matters? I mean, don't supposedly evil people think that what they do or believe is 'right'? I don't belive in absolute good or evil. They are all relative to ones own standpoint.

Well, we could same the same of nearly every word in existence. What is existence and existence according to whom? What is 'same' and 'same' according to whom? What is 'love' and 'love' according to whom? What is 'living' and 'living' according to whom? Ad infinitum... almost.

However, when we start discussing such things, commonalities present between people and their concepts. We take those commonalities and use them as the defining characteristics, being mindful that others may add further to that meaning that what the 'common' meaning dictates.

But go back in time even as little as 20 years - what is the epitome of evil now was all rather 'meh' then. Conversely, communism was regarded as the ultimate evil then, but nowadays in some circles it's the answer to all our problems.

But we are not talking about evil. Evil has no bearing on the discussion at hand. And what you say of the word evil, cannot be said of the word good. So again, your digress into semantics doesn't actually address the topic.

Really? You can't find any relevance of evil to good? It's simply the other side of the same coin.

Well how about go back 200 years - 'civilizing the savages' was seen as good. But I bet you'd strongly disagree with that nowadays wouldn't you? But that doesn't mean everyone sees it as such.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #12 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:12pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:04pm:

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:36pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Then I will have to ask - goodness according to whom? Surely our own impressions of what is 'good' is all that matters? I mean, don't supposedly evil people think that what they do or believe is 'right'? I don't belive in absolute good or evil. They are all relative to ones own standpoint.

Well, we could same the same of nearly every word in existence. What is existence and existence according to whom? What is 'same' and 'same' according to whom? What is 'love' and 'love' according to whom? What is 'living' and 'living' according to whom? Ad infinitum... almost.

However, when we start discussing such things, commonalities present between people and their concepts. We take those commonalities and use them as the defining characteristics, being mindful that others may add further to that meaning that what the 'common' meaning dictates.

But go back in time even as little as 20 years - what is the epitome of evil now was all rather 'meh' then. Conversely, communism was regarded as the ultimate evil then, but nowadays in some circles it's the answer to all our problems.

But we are not talking about evil. Evil has no bearing on the discussion at hand. And what you say of the word evil, cannot be said of the word good. So again, your digress into semantics doesn't actually address the topic.

Really? You can't find any relevance of evil to good? It's simply the other side of the same coin.

Well how about go back 200 years - 'civilizing the savages' was seen as good. But I bet you'd strongly disagree with that nowadays wouldn't you? But that doesn't mean everyone sees it as such.

Evil pertains to religion. Civilizing the savages pertains to religion. This thread pertains to Atheists and what is a Good Life.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #13 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:23pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:12pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:04pm:

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:56pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:43pm:

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:36pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Then I will have to ask - goodness according to whom? Surely our own impressions of what is 'good' is all that matters? I mean, don't supposedly evil people think that what they do or believe is 'right'? I don't belive in absolute good or evil. They are all relative to ones own standpoint.

Well, we could same the same of nearly every word in existence. What is existence and existence according to whom? What is 'same' and 'same' according to whom? What is 'love' and 'love' according to whom? What is 'living' and 'living' according to whom? Ad infinitum... almost.

However, when we start discussing such things, commonalities present between people and their concepts. We take those commonalities and use them as the defining characteristics, being mindful that others may add further to that meaning that what the 'common' meaning dictates.

But go back in time even as little as 20 years - what is the epitome of evil now was all rather 'meh' then. Conversely, communism was regarded as the ultimate evil then, but nowadays in some circles it's the answer to all our problems.

But we are not talking about evil. Evil has no bearing on the discussion at hand. And what you say of the word evil, cannot be said of the word good. So again, your digress into semantics doesn't actually address the topic.

Really? You can't find any relevance of evil to good? It's simply the other side of the same coin.

Well how about go back 200 years - 'civilizing the savages' was seen as good. But I bet you'd strongly disagree with that nowadays wouldn't you? But that doesn't mean everyone sees it as such.

Evil pertains to religion. Civilizing the savages pertains to religion. This thread pertains to Atheists and what is a Good Life.

What? You can't be serious....evil is simply the opposite of good, and everyone, religious or not, has a 'compass' with which to gauge where something sits long this spectrum. Blaming everything you dislike on the 'religion' boogieman doesn't really make for objective commentary.

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Sappho

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #14 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:29pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:23pm:

What? You can't be serious....evil is simply the opposite of good, and everyone, religious or not, has a 'compass' with which to gauge where something sits long this spectrum. Blaming everything you dislike on the 'religion' boogieman doesn't really make for objective commentary.

You are talking to Sappho, not Boogieman and whilst you prefer evil to be the antonym of good, I prefer bad to be the antonym of good.

Nonetheless, to move this discussion further, lets explore this idea of yours that knowing the Bad Life will show us what the good life is. Would you like to expand on that?

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