Australian Politics Forum - The meaning of God

NorthOfNorth

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #15 - Jul 27^th, 2011 at 6:17am

muso wrote on Jul 26^th, 2011 at 8:58am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 17^th, 2011 at 11:11pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2011 at 6:14pm:

God is a verb, not a noun.

I god
You god
he/she gods

we god
you god
they god

You have to göd him, don't you? Cheesy

muso wrote on Jul 26^th, 2011 at 8:58am:

I think I understand what Soren is getting at though.

Yeah, but I guess (notwithstanding that I'm an atheist), I agree with Meister Eckhart's notion that any attempt to define 'god' (whatever he/she/it is) is pointless as he/she/it is indefinable because 'he has none of the characteristics of finite existence'... i.e. "god is not good, for I am more good than 'he' " ... "God is not wise, for I am wiser than 'he' ".

These apparent contradictions (or at the very least departures from orthodox Christian thought) does not mean Eckhart was an atheist (or does it!), but that any attempt to define god will necessarily fail to define god.

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Amadd

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #16 - Aug 1^st, 2011 at 8:38am

So it is written that only the religious (esp. Christian God fearers) can have any innate feeling of what "God is".
Most athiests recommend that any exisiting interventionist God will probably be beyond human understanding/logic. ie: God is beyond our understanding, so we'd do just as well, or maybe even better, to imagine that God doesn't exist as an external controller.

Unfortunately, athiests haven't the advantage of "God's word" which was believed to be true thousands of years prior, but hardly ever since the word of science took over as being a "practical truth" that all humans regardless of sex, race, religion or creed could have faith in. And surprise, surprise, it works better than a million prayers to the ancient belief system.

Obviously, religious doctrines fell ass over tit by stating that this is the "ultimate truth".
Those people may have been pretty wise for their time, but history shows that the writers of scriptures knew not God's truth to any great extent...they were but mere mortals.
I say, thanks for the scriptures, they were/are great pieces of writings.
But they ain't God.

i

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Yadda

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #17 - Aug 1^st, 2011 at 2:05pm

Amadd wrote on Aug 1^st, 2011 at 8:38am:

So it is written that only the religious (esp. Christian God fearers) can have any innate feeling of what "God is".
Most athiests recommend that any exisiting interventionist God will probably be beyond human understanding/logic. ie: God is beyond our understanding, so we'd do just as well, or maybe even better, to imagine that God doesn't exist as an external controller.

Unfortunately, athiests haven't the advantage of "God's word" which was believed to be true thousands of years prior, but hardly ever since the word of science took over as being a "practical truth" that all humans regardless of sex, race, religion or creed could have faith in. And surprise, surprise, it works better than a million prayers to the ancient belief system.

Obviously, religious doctrines fell ass over tit by stating that this is the "ultimate truth".
Those people may have been pretty wise for their time, but history shows that the writers of scriptures knew not God's truth to any great extent...they were but mere mortals.
I say, thanks for the scriptures, they were/are great pieces of writings.
But they ain't God.

'The' problem, which man faces, is that there is something wrong, with the 'wisdom' of men [and women, if you will].

However wise, men, from time to time, believe that they are, eventually all men, if they are honest, will admit, that our 'wisdom' is 90% vanity.

Look at mankind, today, and look at what we have 'achieved'.

Technology and science today has advanced 'out of sight' of where our technological knowledge was, even 100 years ago, even 50 years ago.

Yet, with all of our claimed 'wisdom', we have never even approached overcoming the 'human condition'.

About God....

In my experience, God is real.
And i believe that the group of documents we have come to call 'the Bible', was inspired by God.

Reading the bible, i believe, has 'changed my mind', in every sense of that expression!
And imo, reading the Bible, is a form of spiritual invocation.
IMO, the words and thoughts expressed within the Bible, express [to me] the mind of our God.
Reading those words and thoughts, exposes me to the spirit, which i want to be influenced by.
i.e.
The spirit of God!
It is that simple.

But i know that that, is difficult to comprehend.

If you want to know God, read and study the Bible.

Q.
What is in the Bible ???

Q.
What does the Bible contain ???

A.
The Bible contains ideas and concepts [about truth and justice and righteousness],
.....which men [and women] should seek to learn, and become familiar with!

Can any man know God ???

God, is a spirit.

Can any man know, or comprehend, a spirit ?

And what is, 'a spirit' ???

I would only be guessing.

But you should search for him, yourself.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #18 - Aug 2^nd, 2011 at 10:27am

Amadd wrote on Aug 1^st, 2011 at 8:38am:

So it is written that only the religious (esp. Christian God fearers) can have any innate feeling of what "God is".
Most athiests recommend that any exisiting interventionist God will probably be beyond human understanding/logic. ie: God is beyond our understanding, so we'd do just as well, or maybe even better, to imagine that God doesn't exist as an external controller.

Unfortunately, athiests haven't the advantage of "God's word" which was believed to be true thousands of years prior, but hardly ever since the word of science took over as being a "practical truth" that all humans regardless of sex, race, religion or creed could have faith in. And surprise, surprise, it works better than a million prayers to the ancient belief system.

Obviously, religious doctrines fell ass over tit by stating that this is the "ultimate truth".
Those people may have been pretty wise for their time, but history shows that the writers of scriptures knew not God's truth to any great extent...they were but mere mortals.
I say, thanks for the scriptures, they were/are great pieces of writings.
But they ain't God.

Could it be that some people experience exactly the same feelings, but just don't call it god?

Quote:

Tao literally means "way", but can also be interpreted as road, channel, path, doctrine, or line. Wing-tsit Chan stated that Tao meant a system of morality to Confucianists, but that it meant the natural, eternal, spontaneous, indescribable way things began and pursued their course to Taoists. Hansen disagrees that these were separate meanings and attributes. Cane asserts Tao can be roughly stated to be the flow of the universe, or the force behind the natural order, equating it with the influence that keeps the universe balanced and ordered. Martinson says that Tao is associated with nature, due to a belief that nature demonstrates the Tao. The flow of qi, as the essential energy of action and existence, is often compared to the universal order of Tao. Tao is compared to what it is not, which according to Keller is similar to the negative theology of Western scholars. It is often considered to be the source of both existence and non-existence. LaFargue asserts that Tao is rarely an object of worship, being treated more like the Indian concepts of atman and dharma.

Yadda wrote on Aug 1^st, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Can any man know God ???
God, is a spirit.
Can any man know, or comprehend, a spirit ?
And what is, 'a spirit' ???
I would only be guessing.
But you should search for him, yourself.

Adding some Eastern wisdom to your Christian wisdom:

Quote:

The Way that can be described is not the true Way.
The Name that can be named is not the constant Name.

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« Last Edit: Aug 2^nd, 2011 at 10:33am by muso »

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Soren

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #19 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 10:44am

A Jewish businessman sent his son to Israel for a year to absorb the culture. When the son returned, he said, "Papa, I had a great time in Israel . By the way, I converted to Christianity."
"Oy vey," said the father. "What have I done?" He took his problem to his best friend, Irving.
"Irving," he said, "I sent my son to Israel, and he came home a Christian. What can I do?"
"Funny you should ask," said Irving . "I, too, sent my son to Israel, and he also came home a Christian. Perhaps we should go see the rabbi."
So they did, and they explained their problem to the rabbi. "Funny you should ask," said the rabbi. "I, too, sent my son to Israel, and he also came home a Christian. What is happening to our young people?"
And so they all prayed, telling the Lord about their sons. As they finished their prayer, a voice came from the Heavens: "Funny you should ask," said the Voice. "I, too, sent my Son to Israel ...."

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21722 A cat with a view	Re: The meaning of God Reply #20 - Aug 3^rd, 2011 at 12:11pm @ Soren.
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Amadd

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #21 - Aug 5^th, 2011 at 6:15am

muso wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2011 at 10:27am:

Amadd wrote on Aug 1^st, 2011 at 8:38am:

So it is written that only the religious (esp. Christian God fearers) can have any innate feeling of what "God is".
Most athiests recommend that any exisiting interventionist God will probably be beyond human understanding/logic. ie: God is beyond our understanding, so we'd do just as well, or maybe even better, to imagine that God doesn't exist as an external controller.

Unfortunately, athiests haven't the advantage of "God's word" which was believed to be true thousands of years prior, but hardly ever since the word of science took over as being a "practical truth" that all humans regardless of sex, race, religion or creed could have faith in. And surprise, surprise, it works better than a million prayers to the ancient belief system.

Obviously, religious doctrines fell ass over tit by stating that this is the "ultimate truth".
Those people may have been pretty wise for their time, but history shows that the writers of scriptures knew not God's truth to any great extent...they were but mere mortals.
I say, thanks for the scriptures, they were/are great pieces of writings.
But they ain't God.

Could it be that some people experience exactly the same feelings, but just don't call it god?

Quote:

Tao literally means "way", but can also be interpreted as road, channel, path, doctrine, or line. Wing-tsit Chan stated that Tao meant a system of morality to Confucianists, but that it meant the natural, eternal, spontaneous, indescribable way things began and pursued their course to Taoists. Hansen disagrees that these were separate meanings and attributes. Cane asserts Tao can be roughly stated to be the flow of the universe, or the force behind the natural order, equating it with the influence that keeps the universe balanced and ordered. Martinson says that Tao is associated with nature, due to a belief that nature demonstrates the Tao. The flow of qi, as the essential energy of action and existence, is often compared to the universal order of Tao. Tao is compared to what it is not, which according to Keller is similar to the negative theology of Western scholars. It is often considered to be the source of both existence and non-existence. LaFargue asserts that Tao is rarely an object of worship, being treated more like the Indian concepts of atman and dharma.

Yadda wrote on Aug 1^st, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Can any man know God ???
God, is a spirit.
Can any man know, or comprehend, a spirit ?
And what is, 'a spirit' ???
I would only be guessing.
But you should search for him, yourself.

Adding some Eastern wisdom to your Christian wisdom:

Quote:

The Way that can be described is not the true Way.
The Name that can be named is not the constant Name.

Well, I'm thinking that if any man cannot really know God, then wtf are we on about?
Wtf is this religion thingo when no man/woman can really know God?

Yadda says that God is a spirit.

The spirit of man?
Well, I think that's what religions (in general) attempt to encapsulate. But do they really?

Have they encapsualated your spirit? If not, then that God is probably false to you.

The door to dictatorship is left wide open.

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muso

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #22 - Aug 5^th, 2011 at 11:48am

Amadd wrote on Aug 5^th, 2011 at 6:15am:

Well, I'm thinking that if any man cannot really know God, then -
Wtf is this religion thingo when no man/woman can really know God?

Ah the deep questions -

- What is the meaning of life?
- Why are we here?
- What the hell is this? Life? I didn't order any of that!
- wtf are we on about?

Hallelujah brother Grin

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Yadda

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #23 - Aug 5^th, 2011 at 1:40pm

muso wrote on Aug 5^th, 2011 at 11:48am:

Ah the deep questions -

- What is the meaning of life?
- Why are we here?

- What the hell is this? Life? I didn't order any of that!
- wtf are we on about?

Hallelujah brother Grin

I remember a saying, that;

"Life, is a search for meaning."

But, are we willing to undertake that search ???

Or will this world distract us ???

+++

Of the days of men's lives, here in this life, the Preacher says...

Ecclesiastes 3:10
I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.
11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.

What is this life about ???

Search it out....
....OR,
don't.

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Alternatively, you can do what the majority of mankind do, here....
....[try to] sate their desires.

The way of man.....

"If it feels good, ...do it!"

James 4:4
.....know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

It is easy to be seduced by the world.

It is, 'The easiest thing in the world.' !!

But that is not our purpose here.

Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Jesus said that we should;

"....seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;"

God, is NOT a 'killjoy'.

BUT, he [God] does insist that we [try to] act righteously, in all of the things which we do here.

See.... Romans 7:14-23

Throughout the bible, you see expressed, that God loves those who 'fear him'....

e.g.
Psalms 147:1
The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

Psalms 85:9
Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.

Psalms 103:13
Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.

Those who 'fear' God ???

What does that mean ???

The term to 'Fear God', to me means;

To love God, and, to [try to] be guided by, and to love, God's righteousness.

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« Last Edit: Aug 5^th, 2011 at 1:49pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #24 - Aug 5^th, 2011 at 3:58pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 27^th, 2011 at 6:17am:

muso wrote on Jul 26^th, 2011 at 8:58am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 17^th, 2011 at 11:11pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2011 at 6:14pm:

God is a verb, not a noun.

I god
You god
he/she gods

we god
you god
they god

You have to göd him, don't you? Cheesy

muso wrote on Jul 26^th, 2011 at 8:58am:

I think I understand what Soren is getting at though.

Yeah, but I guess (notwithstanding that I'm an atheist), I agree with Meister Eckhart's notion that any attempt to define 'god' (whatever he/she/it is) is pointless as he/she/it is indefinable because 'he has none of the characteristics of finite existence'... i.e. "god is not good, for I am more good than 'he' " ... "God is not wise, for I am wiser than 'he' ".

These apparent contradictions (or at the very least departures from orthodox Christian thought) does not mean Eckhart was an atheist (or does it!), but that any attempt to define god will necessarily fail to define god.

"I am that I am." OT. The Law.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." NT. God is Love, Agape, Charity, "He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him", all that. I don't think this is particularly hard to understand. Very hard to live it but what's the point of setting low standards if you are god?
If fact, being hard to live up to it shows that it is not merely a worldy 'construct", this "love one another" commandment and standard and light. It's not something simply performative (like all of Islam's commandments, for example) but something you have to have in your heart.

The Church, the ecclesiastic stuff - that's an altogether worldly thing, the unfolding of how the profane, the worldy comes up short of the covenant, the law that is written in the heart, if you like.

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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The meaning of God Reply #25 - Aug 5^th, 2011 at 7:59pm Quote: "He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him" Well if that is a quote from the bible, and if god inspired/directed those words, then god must be a stoner, because he speaks jibberish.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The meaning of God Reply #26 - Aug 5^th, 2011 at 8:51pm Mozz, this remark of yours reveals the worst kind of narrow-minded parochialism - if it's not readily fathomable within the narrow horizons of the last 40 years then it's not worth stopping for. The compulsive forgetter's dreadful attitude.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The meaning of God
Reply #27 - Aug 13^th, 2011 at 10:23am

muso wrote on Aug 5^th, 2011 at 11:48am:

Amadd wrote on Aug 5^th, 2011 at 6:15am:

Well, I'm thinking that if any man cannot really know God, then -
Wtf is this religion thingo when no man/woman can really know God?

Ah the deep questions -

- What is the meaning of life?
- Why are we here?
- What the hell is this? Life? I didn't order any of that!
- wtf are we on about?

Hallelujah brother Grin

A reading from the Gospel of St David of Byrne.

1. You may findeth thyself living in a shotgun shack

2. You may findeth thyself in another part of the world

3. You may findeth thyself behind the wheel of a large automobile

4. You may findeth thyself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful
wife

5. And you may asketh thyself-Well...How did I get here?

6. And you may asketh thyself, How do I work this?

7. And you may asketh thyself, Where is that large automobile?

8. And you may asketh thyself, This is not my beautiful house!

9. And you may telleth thyself, This is not my beautiful wife!

10. And you may asketh thyself, What is that beautiful house?

11. And you may asketh thyself, Where doth that highway leadeth?

12, And you may asketh thyself, Am I right?...Am I wrong?

13. And you may telleth thyself, My God! What have I done?

14. For thou hast let the days go by and thou hast let the water holdeth thou down

15. Thou hast let the days go by with water flowing underground

16. Foundeth thyself in the blue again, in the silent water

17. Under the rocks and stones there is water underground.

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: The meaning of God Reply #28 - Aug 13^th, 2011 at 12:02pm Now I see the light! It's all about wearing a big suit.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: The meaning of God Reply #29 - Aug 13^th, 2011 at 12:25pm Same as it ever was, Same as it ever was.
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