Australian Politics Forum - Atheists are ..

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Atheists are .. Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:08pm people who are obsessed with discussing God and/or religion. Don't believe me? No worries .. but take another look at this forum and its topics.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Atheists are .. Reply #1 - Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:48pm Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:08pm: people who are obsessed with discussing God and/or religion. Don't believe me? No worries .. but take another look at this forum and its topics. An Atheist's defining belief relies on God or gods. Is it hardly surprising?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #2 - Aug 6^th, 2011 at 4:47pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:08pm:

people who are obsessed with discussing God and/or religion.

Don't believe me? No worries .. but take another look at this forum and its topics.

You might like to consider the difference between being obsessed with God and/or religion as opposed to being interested in the reasons some people believe in/are obsessed with god and/or religion, why they would be and/or what effect many theists believe their theism should have on society.

Believing in god and knowing others believe in god are not the same thing... Different parts of the brain for each are activated y'know...

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Sappho

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #3 - Aug 6^th, 2011 at 7:03pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 4:47pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:08pm:

people who are obsessed with discussing God and/or religion.

Don't believe me? No worries .. but take another look at this forum and its topics.

You might like to consider the difference between being obsessed with God and/or religion as opposed to being interested in the reasons some people believe in/are obsessed with god and/or religion, why they would be and/or what effect many theists believe their theism should have on society.

Believing in god and knowing others believe in god are not the same thing... Different parts of the brain for each are activated y'know...

I would also add that being Atheist does not preclude a persons right to express an interest in ancient history and mythology of which biblical texts are an excellent resource. They may not give an accurate account of history, but they do give us a deep insight into the mood of the times and what influenced that mood.

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Yadda

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #4 - Aug 7^th, 2011 at 12:27am

Sappho wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 7:03pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 4:47pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:08pm:

people who are obsessed with discussing God and/or religion.

Don't believe me? No worries .. but take another look at this forum and its topics.

You might like to consider the difference between being obsessed with God and/or religion as opposed to being interested in the reasons some people believe in/are obsessed with god and/or religion, why they would be and/or what effect many theists believe their theism should have on society.

Believing in god and knowing others believe in god are not the same thing... Different parts of the brain for each are activated y'know...

I would also add that being Atheist does not preclude a persons right to express an interest in ancient history and mythology of which biblical texts are an excellent resource.

They may not give an accurate account of history, but they do give us a deep insight into the mood of the times and what influenced that mood.

....and [some may argue,] that biblical texts also reveal a remarkable insight, on the part of their authors, into aspects of the human psyche ???

And shouldn't this insight into our nature [on the part of 'sheep herders'] be just a little intriguing, to [an 'enhanced' by our superior knowledge and supposed wisdom, of] modern man ?

Questions that come to my mind;

Were our ancient progenitors really so [intellectually] 'backward', as we today [so often] would like to suppose ???

Have we mankind really changed so much, from our ancient progenitors ???

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #5 - Aug 7^th, 2011 at 12:30am

Yadda wrote on Aug 7^th, 2011 at 12:27am:

....and [some may argue,] that biblical texts also reveal a remarkable insight, on the part of their authors, into aspects of the human psyche ???

And shouldn't this insight into our nature [on the part of 'sheep herders'] be just a little intriguing, to [an 'enhanced' by our knowledge and wisdom] modern man ?
Questions that come to my mind;

Were our ancient progenitors really so [intellectually] 'backward', as we today [so often] would like to suppose ???

Have we mankind really changed so much, from our ancient progenitors ???

I doubt human nature has changed in thousands of years, so, yes, enduring ancient texts are bound to say something to us as they did when they were written. But the Bible no more than, say, the Bhagavad Gītā.

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Amadd

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #6 - Aug 7^th, 2011 at 2:19am

muso wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:08pm:

people who are obsessed with discussing God and/or religion.

Don't believe me? No worries .. but take another look at this forum and its topics.

An Atheist's defining belief relies on God or gods. Is it hardly surprising?

Where did you get that impression?

To me, it's more like an intrigue, or a fascination as to how some people seem rational in most regards and yet they believe that an historical man once walked on water, performed miracles..etc.
It's very much like a kiddie who still believes that santa will come down the chimney and deliver all sorts of goodies to them if they have been good all year.

Personally, I find that far more fascinating than the question of an interventionist God existing or not.

I agree that yes, I require this belief in God (or what God does) in order to spark my fascination. Without the belief of others, I wouldn't be interested.

No doubt, the initial comment was intended to spark some interest for the "unbelievers".
That interest being "The use of logic".

If presents are found at the base of a xmas tree on xmas day, does that necessarily mean they were left by a man in a red suit who rode through the sky on a sleigh pulled by reindeer?

Using the same logic, ....I think that you should know what I'm getting at.i

i

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Sappho

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #7 - Aug 7^th, 2011 at 9:24am

Yadda wrote on Aug 7^th, 2011 at 12:27am:

Sappho wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 7:03pm:

They may not give an accurate account of history, but they do give us a deep insight into the mood of the times and what influenced that mood.

....and [some may argue,] that biblical texts also reveal a remarkable insight, on the part of their authors, into aspects of the human psyche ???

Absolutely Yadda. I think the great lesson that many Atheists are yet to learn is that if you turn away from religion, you must find something, of equal significance, to fill that gap once held by religion.

With this in mind, Atheists need to ask themselves, what is the point of religion?

Quote:

And shouldn't this insight into our nature [on the part of 'sheep herders'] be just a little intriguing, to [an 'enhanced' by our superior knowledge and supposed wisdom, of] modern man ?

Not only the Abrahamic faith Yadda, but all faiths and rituals are intriguing. I find the myths and rituals of American Indian tribes to be most fascinating. One particular tribe required boys coming of age to move through a dark tunnel to end up in a cavern and there to add his picture to the pictures drawn by his ancestors near and far. During the journey through the cave, he would be prodded and pushed, tumble and fall in the darkness. When he returned from this, he was deemed a man. It's classic re-birth.

Then again, the pre history Hellenist myths and rituals are a fav of mine and always providing insight into the nature and motives of humans... the symbol of the Bull that stretches back to ancient times is still with us today in the form of Bull fights.

Likewise the Bhagavad Gītā, as mentioned by Helian... which is fascinating because Krishna gave three arguments to the King as to why he should war with those who are his brothers or who were his teachers... the moral... the philosophical and the spiritual. But the only argument to sway the King was the spiritual... that was Krisha revealing himself as God and as God his desire to see the war fought.

Quote:

Questions that come to my mind;

Were our ancient progenitors really so [intellectually] 'backward', as we today [so often] would like to suppose ???

Have we mankind really changed so much, from our ancient progenitors ???

We are no different nor better than our ancient progenitors... we are just further along the journey of knowledge than they were.

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muso

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #8 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 10:17am

Amadd wrote on Aug 7^th, 2011 at 2:19am:

muso wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 1:08pm:

people who are obsessed with discussing God and/or religion.

Don't believe me? No worries .. but take another look at this forum and its topics.

An Atheist's defining belief relies on God or gods. Is it hardly surprising?

Where did you get that impression?

If you look at any of the dictionary definitions of Atheist, they involve Gods or some such thing. It stands to reason that an Atheist would want to discuss the belief in gods (or some such thing).

That's all I'm getting at.

You can find all kinds of definitions for "atheist", "god", "religion" etc out there, and many are not compatible. So it's a rubbery concept, which means that people who don't call themselves atheists are free to make it almost anything they want.

Yadda - Did you listen to "The Spirit of Things" last night on ABC Radio National? They had John Lennox as a guest. (Richard Dawkins' arch -enemy Grin

)

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Yadda

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #9 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 10:50am

Sappho wrote on Aug 7^th, 2011 at 9:24am:

Quote:

Questions that come to my mind;

Were our ancient progenitors really so [intellectually] 'backward', as we today [so often] would like to suppose ???

Have we mankind really changed so much, from our ancient progenitors ???

We are no different nor better than our ancient progenitors... we are just further along the journey of knowledge than they were.

Exactly so Sappho.

....at least, we like to believe that our accumulated knowledge has taken us, to a 'better' place, compared to that 'place' in which our ancient progenitors found themselves. Wink

Certainly our technology today is impressive.

But our morality ???

Are we today, in any way, better than that character, Cain, in the 1st book of the Bible ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #10 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 11:08am

muso wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 10:17am:

Yadda - Did you listen to "The Spirit of Things" last night on ABC Radio National?

They had John Lennox as a guest. (Richard Dawkins' arch -enemy Grin

)

Hi muso.

No.

I now, no longer listen to "The Spirit of Things".

I now make a point of avoiding that program.

Listening to the presenter [i forget his name] distresses me.

It really hurts my spirit, to listen to the leftist, 'humanist' opinions and views, expressed by that guy, and to the views many of his guests, even the views of many of his Christian guests offend me.

I am particularly distressed by his lack of critical knowledge regarding ISLAM / moslems [likewise, Geraldine Doogue]

IMO, these people [public presenters, of religious issues] should be asking difficult questions of their moslem guests, but, they almost never do.

They are a part of the problem, imo.

They have their careers to protect.

I can understand that, but, imo, that does not excuse their open appeasement and open 'accommodation' of an evil philosophy like ISLAM, and its adherents, moslems.

Sorry.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #11 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 1:42pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 11:08am:

Hi muso.

No.

I now, no longer listen to "The Spirit of Things".

I now make a point of avoiding that program.

Listening to the presenter [i forget his name] distresses me.

It really hurts my spirit, to listen to the leftist, 'humanist' opinions and views, expressed by that guy, and to the views many of his guests, even the views of many of his Christian guests offend me.

It's not a He, it's a she. Rachel Kohn is the presenter, and like any journo, she takes a neutral viewpoint but still asks hard-hitting questions.

In last night's edition, it was gratifying to hear Lennox dismiss some of Dawkins' arguments as being simplistic, in particular his strawman of faith equating to belief without evidence. It's something I've been saying for a while, but it's good to hear somebody else saying it.

IMHO Dawkins gives atheists a bad name Grin

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Yadda

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #12 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 1:56pm

muso wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 1:42pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 11:08am:

Hi muso.

No.

I now, no longer listen to "The Spirit of Things".

I now make a point of avoiding that program.

Listening to the presenter [i forget his name] distresses me.

It really hurts my spirit, to listen to the leftist, 'humanist' opinions and views, expressed by that guy, and to the views many of his guests, even the views of many of his Christian guests offend me.

It's not a He, it's a she. Rachel Kohn is the presenter, and like any journo, she takes a neutral viewpoint but still asks hard-hitting questions.

Hi muso,

I apologise.

The 'national' program we get here on the local ABC [and the one that i assumed that you were referring to], is 'Sunday Nights' with John Cleary.

http://www.abc.net.au/sundaynights/

I admit, i have not tried to tune into the ABC Radio National channel.

In any case, i missed the program you referred to.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sappho

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #13 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 4:25pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 10:50am:

Sappho wrote on Aug 7^th, 2011 at 9:24am:

Quote:

Questions that come to my mind;

Were our ancient progenitors really so [intellectually] 'backward', as we today [so often] would like to suppose ???

Have we mankind really changed so much, from our ancient progenitors ???

We are no different nor better than our ancient progenitors... we are just further along the journey of knowledge than they were.

Exactly so Sappho.

....at least, we like to believe that our accumulated knowledge has taken us, to a 'better' place, compared to that 'place' in which our ancient progenitors found themselves. Wink

Really? How do you measure that to know that? Are we more content? Are we less warlike?

Quote:

But our morality ???

Our morality is more sophisticated due to our more sophisticated technologies. That doesn't make it better, just different.

Quote:

Are we today, in any way, better than that character, Cain, in the 1st book of the Bible ?

Are we any worse than Abel for that matter.

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Sappho

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Re: Atheists are ..
Reply #14 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 4:30pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 1:56pm:

I admit, i have not tried to tune into the ABC Radio National channel.

In any case, i missed the program you referred to.

Quote:

An Evening With John Lennox

Mathematician, philosopher of science, and Christian, John Lennox of Oxford University has made a name for himself debating Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Peter Singer on the compatibility of religion and science. Recorded in front of an audience at Sydney's Roseville College in conversation with Rachael Kohn, Lennox covers a range of topics in the religion and science debate. These include the 'evidence for faith', his experiences 'behind the Iron Curtain' in Communist Russia, and his disagreement with Singer's 'solution' to the problem of pain. (Held in conjunction with the Centre for Public Christianity).

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/spiritofthings/stories/2011/3283542.htm

You don't have to miss it Yadda, or any Radio National program for that matter. They are available on line to listen to or down load. Often there is a transcript also, but not always.

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