Australian Politics Forum - do my homework for me

freediver

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do my homework for me
Aug 8^th, 2011 at 1:59am

Maqqa wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 11:10am:

freediver

why are we discussing the mechanics of a cap & trade vs a carbon tax

this is like discussing between lethal injection vs electrocution ie by discussing it we are resigned to the death sentence

why are we not fighting the death sentence?

an Australian Carbon Tax or an Australian Cap & Trade will not do one difference to global temperature

if humans contributes only 1% to total global carbon emissions then how would reducing any part of that 1% reduce global temperature?

Maqqa the answers to your questions on the science are easily accessible. You just need to look for yourself rather than constantly asking others to look for you. It would be a lot easier that way. The reason we are discussing the mechanism to reduce emissions rather than the justification is because we are much further along that debate.

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2011 at 8:43pm by freediver »

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Maqqa

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Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade
Reply #1 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 6:04pm

freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 1:59am:

Maqqa the answers to your questions on the science are easily accessible. You just need to look for yourself rather than constantly asking others to look for you. It would be a lot easier that way. The reason we are discussing the mechanism to reduce emissions rather than the justification is because we are much further along that debate.

You say that because you can't answer it

As researched as you are on these topics you can't either

NO ONE can - it does not exist because they Climate Scientists do not want that one out of the bag

it's as simple as that

Last but not least - just because Gillard tells you that the debate is further along does not mean it is.

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« Last Edit: Aug 8^th, 2011 at 6:12pm by Maqqa »

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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freediver

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Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade
Reply #2 - Aug 9^th, 2011 at 5:30pm

I just can't be bothered Maqqa. It's got nothing to do with what Gillard says or thinks. I was promoting carbon taxes a decade before her.

You contradict yourself at every turn. You suggest there is an answer then construct and absurd conspiracy to explain why no-one will tell you what it is. Has it ever occurred to you to figure it out for yourself?

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Maqqa

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Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade
Reply #3 - Aug 12^th, 2011 at 11:38pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2011 at 5:30pm:

I just can't be bothered Maqqa. It's got nothing to do with what Gillard says or thinks. I was promoting carbon taxes a decade before her.

You contradict yourself at every turn. You suggest there is an answer then construct and absurd conspiracy to explain why no-one will tell you what it is. Has it ever occurred to you to figure it out for yourself?

Conspiracy?

I didn't come up with the claim that carbon dioxide is solely responsible for global warming

It was the left that came up with this theory then called demonised anyone who questioned them

Once again - you cannot answer my question even though you claim there are plenty of ways to get the answer

If so - it should be quiet easy for you to do so

You won't admit it because it means you will have to admit the basis of AGW is all circumstantial evidence

And your "I just can't be bothered" answer is a cop out

I am not surprised that you have not asked why would my answer be relevant to the AGW discussion!

If you did then I will have to expose this fraud even further

People are acting based on moral obligation rather than scientific evidence

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48820 At my desk.	Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade Reply #4 - Aug 13^th, 2011 at 8:21am Can you be bothered trying to figure it out for yourself? If you can't, why should anyone else?
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Maqqa

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Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade
Reply #5 - Aug 13^th, 2011 at 8:22pm

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2011 at 8:21am:

Can you be bothered trying to figure it out for yourself?

If you can't, why should anyone else?

Of course

That's why I asked because I know the fundamental answer was never investigated

Lets look at the analogy of poison. You have 99 10mL bottles of a poison called C - I have 1 10mL bottle of the same C poison

If you and I empty the whole 100 bottles into a swimming pool - who is more culpable?

If you had empty 99 of your bottles into the pools and I didn't would that stop the poison

Likewise - if humans contribute 1% of the Carbon emissions then how does reducing any part of that 1% will do any difference?

So that fundamental question was never investigated - of course you are claiming there are plenty of info out there about it. So lets see it freediver

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48820 At my desk.	Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade Reply #6 - Aug 13^th, 2011 at 8:40pm So you have bothered to investigate which is why you asked because no-one has ever investigated?
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade Reply #7 - Aug 13^th, 2011 at 9:33pm freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2011 at 8:40pm: So you have bothered to investigate which is why you asked because no-one has ever investigated? I have tried to verify the fundamentals of the AGW claims and found it wanting at the very basic level
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48820 At my desk.	Re: do my homework for me Reply #8 - Aug 14^th, 2011 at 9:00am How is that related to your question? You would be able to get an answer to your question pretty easily based on the predictions in the IPCC reports without needing to understand the fundamentals. Are you merely trying to change the topic? Am I supposed to now try to explain the basics of climate science to you instead?
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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: do my homework for me Reply #9 - Aug 15^th, 2011 at 3:23pm It was the left that came up with this theory then called demonised anyone who questioned them
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Karnal

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Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade
Reply #10 - Aug 17^th, 2011 at 4:12pm

Maqqa wrote on Aug 12^th, 2011 at 11:38pm:

I didn't come up with the claim that carbon dioxide is solely responsible for global warming

It was the left that came up with this theory then called demonised anyone who questioned them

That's right. The CSIRO have been long entrenched in parties like the Socialist Alliance, the CPA (Marxist-Leninist) and the hard left faction of the ALP.

It's time the relationship between the scientists and fringe leftist elements finally came to light.

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mantra

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Re: do my homework for me
Reply #11 - Aug 26^th, 2011 at 8:51am

I'm concerned about having to buy carbon credits from overseas markets - especially from markets which don't currently exist or are corrupt.

How is that going to help us reduce emissions? Admittedly this article is from a Liberal website - but they have a point?

Why does our money have to go overseas to the unknown?

Quote:

Just six weeks ago, the World Bank reported that the international market in carbon credits has suffered a debilitating collapse and expressed doubt about the ongoing viability of global markets.

According to the World Bank, trading in credits commenced after the Kyoto Protocol was adopted in 2005, and about $25 billion was generated over the years to 2009.

However, that market collapsed to $1.5 billion last year, due to ongoing concerns about the commitment of nations after the expiry of the Kyoto Protocol in 2012.

The United States withdrew from the Kyoto Protocol in March 2001 and has indicated it will not commit to any replacement treaty, while Russia, Japan and Canada have all stated recently that they will not continue with the Protocol after it expires.

On 28 December 2010, the European law enforcement agency EuroPol issued a media release about extensive defrauding of the European Union emissions trading system.

EuroPol reported that it had raided several hundred offices throughout Europe and had arrested more than 100 people.

http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2011/07/20/Carbon-offsets-have-already-run...

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: do my homework for me Reply #12 - Aug 26^th, 2011 at 3:08pm A propos homework: Q. Hey, kids, how do you know if an Asian has burglared your house? A. When you come home, your homework is done, your dog's missing and the burglar is still trying to reverse out of the driveway.
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freediver

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Re: do my homework for me
Reply #13 - Aug 26^th, 2011 at 7:36pm

mantra wrote on Aug 26^th, 2011 at 8:51am:

I'm concerned about having to buy carbon credits from overseas markets - especially from markets which don't currently exist or are corrupt.

How is that going to help us reduce emissions? Admittedly this article is from a Liberal website - but they have a point?

Why does our money have to go overseas to the unknown?

Quote:

Just six weeks ago, the World Bank reported that the international market in carbon credits has suffered a debilitating collapse and expressed doubt about the ongoing viability of global markets.

According to the World Bank, trading in credits commenced after the Kyoto Protocol was adopted in 2005, and about $25 billion was generated over the years to 2009.

However, that market collapsed to $1.5 billion last year, due to ongoing concerns about the commitment of nations after the expiry of the Kyoto Protocol in 2012.

The United States withdrew from the Kyoto Protocol in March 2001 and has indicated it will not commit to any replacement treaty, while Russia, Japan and Canada have all stated recently that they will not continue with the Protocol after it expires.

On 28 December 2010, the European law enforcement agency EuroPol issued a media release about extensive defrauding of the European Union emissions trading system.

EuroPol reported that it had raided several hundred offices throughout Europe and had arrested more than 100 people.

http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2011/07/20/Carbon-offsets-have-already-run...

I don't see Australia participating in an international carbon trading agreement in the near future. My personal hope is that Kyoto will be replaced with some kind of international agreement on the minimum carbon tax. Such a scheme would be far less susceptible to the sort of problems you mention.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: a carbon tax is better than cap and trade
Reply #14 - Sep 13^th, 2011 at 1:50am

Maqqa wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 6:04pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2011 at 1:59am:

Maqqa the answers to your questions on the science are easily accessible. You just need to look for yourself rather than constantly asking others to look for you. It would be a lot easier that way. The reason we are discussing the mechanism to reduce emissions rather than the justification is because we are much further along that debate.

You say that because you can't answer it

As researched as you are on these topics you can't either

NO ONE can - it does not exist because they Climate Scientists do not want that one out of the bag

it's as simple as that

Last but not least - just because Gillard tells you that the debate is further along does not mean it is.

Maqqa doesn't understand science! Cheesy

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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