NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 14
th, 2011 at 4:54pm:
Just for the record :
#1,
I believe Jesus probably existed as an historical figure.
#2,
I believe he was not born in Bethlehem, so could not have fulfilled the requirements of Scripture for Messiahship.
#3,
I do not believe he considered himself the Messiah (or the 'Son of God').
#4,
I believe the Jesus story became the story of 'Christ' (Messiah) via Pauline doctrine.
#5,
I believe Jesus was virtually unknown in Palestine during his lifetime.
So your position is the the Gospel(s) account of Jesus, and of his life, was [in your opinion] largely all a fabrication and untrue ?
Point 3, especially, is in conflict with the Gospel(s) account of what Jesus [supposedly] stated about himself.
i.e.
The Gospel(s) account clearly shows that Jesus
did claim to be the Jewish Messiah, and be divine.
But of course, if the Gospel(s) account of Jesus life, was largely all a fabrication and untrue, then Jesus would not have been the Jewish Messiah.
And if your assertion, point 2, is correct, then Jesus himself would must likely have been in on the deception too ???
So, for any individual, it all hinges upon whether you can believe that the Gospel(s) and NT account of Jesus, and of his life, was true.
1 Corinthians 15:1
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6
After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
Luke 24:13
And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31
And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
Yes, it is an unbelievable account isn't it.