gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 6:54am:

True... That's the problem with god... He answers all calls,  but sometimes that answer is "Sorry... GOD... Isn't available right now, I can let him know you called..."

Actually, I have a question regarding the Biblical Jesus.  Now we read in Matthew, that Jesus Christ was physically resurrected, in that he spoke with up to 500 people who knew him, showed them his wounds, and actually ate meals.

Now we also read in Luke, that he ascended to heaven in corporeal form 40 days after his resurrection.

I'm not interested in talking about the "mythological" aspects of this or debating how the account was influenced by other religions of the time, but I am interested in the implications of corporeal ascension versus presumably non corporeal ascension of others following death.  There are other Biblical accounts of corporeal ascension of course. Job springs to mind.

So what do Christians actually believe in terms of the significance of corporeal ascension as opposed to non-corporeal? Does it matter? This is not intended to trap anyone. It's a gap in my knowledge that I'd like to fill. I believe that religions serve a purpose and I find their beliefs fascinating. I agree with Karnal's reply 80 in this thread.

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:45am:

Jesus is not god's representative... Jesus is god... Y'know the three persons in one god.

The Pope inherits all that the mythology of Jesus bestowed on him, the Vicar of Christ... Y'know 'Thou art Petrus and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it"

What the Pope binds on earth is bound in heaven what he looses on earth is loosed in heaven...

Cos y'know... that's the core belief of the Christian establishment... Or at least how the Roman heads of state allowed it to be transmitted.

 Sorry for my late-ncy.

Superman1 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2011 at 10:38pm:


Karnal wrote on Oct 6^th, 2011 at 12:47pm:


 I meant it means nothing else than; that it is that simple, and easy to understand.
 I slightly didn't use the right grammar, and looked what happened. Just like in J-Hi's time. Global misintwirpretation. You all became babbling books.
 I didn't mean the Bible or any external guy at all.

 Let that be a lesson to me.

Superman1 wrote on Oct 18^th, 2011 at 5:21pm:


Do you think the Bible is easy to understand? It's full of examples like the above.

The Bible is not a simple, historical document. It's full of myth, metaphor, and for those who know where to look, instruction.

It's got instructions for everyone. I like your interpretation. It makes sense.

From what I've read of Jesus, he rarely gives one meaning. He chooses words with multiple layers of meaning. He liked puns and metaphors. For a landless, textual people like the Jews, literacy was fundamental to their faith. To an occupied nation like Israel, words were crucial to its resistance. The Jews, like the Irish, are a race of storytellers.

In the beginning was the word.

Many scholars believe Jesus came from the Essene sect. The Essenes had links to the hidden Jewish practices of the Kabbalah and the Talmud. Kabbalists believe that words have spiritual power, that the names of G_d can direct energy in your body and help you achieve higher states of consciousness. Think of Joshua bringing down the walls of Jericho with the power of his army's voice.

The walls of Jericho are within.

Hebrew itself is a densely layered language and written form. Its letters correspond to numbers and symbols. Medieval Christian scholars picked up on this. Some sought to prove the divinity of Jesus through the Hebrew alphabet alone. They believed that a common Hebrew name for G_d, Jehova, was realised in the spirit by adding the Hebrew letter shin, forming the name, Yeheshua.

The Hebrew letter shin, resembles a fire, and means spirit.

It fit nicely with their Greek medical training too. In Hebrew, Jehova had four letters, each representing the four elements, earth, air, fire and water. With the addition of spirit, God was realised in the body of Christ.

All word games, of course, but Medieval monks didn't have crossword puzzles and sodoku.

I'm not sure if studies like the above are helpful, or just wankery. Like most things, I guess, it's probably a bit of both. However, I do think we lost something in the reformation. Paradoxically, by painting over the frescos and putting the focus back on the Bible, the word has become lost - just as it has with the renewed focus on the spirit in the Pentacostal movement. At Hillsong, for example, you'll rarely even hear a Bible quote.

Refreshing, perhaps, but all that singing, speaking in tongues and putting your hands in the air looks like a Wiggles concert to me.

Or a Nuremberg rally.

Give me Martin Luther anyday.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:00pm:



" The Pope is just another bare bum in the shower block " - Chopper Read.

What a lot of bullshit Sprint.

I am Bobbythebat1 & I am the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

Disprove it!

By the way - in those times there were Messiahs everywhere.
It was a way to earn a living.
Messiahs were a dime a dozen.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 24^th, 2011 at 9:37pm:

Only they ain't dimes they're pulling by the dozen no more