I never knew god was italian!
I think I have driven past that house, I think it had green painted concrete in the front yard, and a couple of cement lions on the front steps.

muso wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:08pm:







muso,

You quoted the verse; "In my Father's house are many mansions:" [John 14:2].

I believe that verse is referring to how we may regard our own body, as having the function of a 'house' [or a temporary prison!] for our spirit(s).

e.g.
Lamentations 3:33
For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
34  To crush under his feet all the prisoners of the earth,

Psalms 69:33
For the LORD heareth the poor, and despiseth not his prisoners.



Here are some further bible verses which refer [sometimes obliquely] to this circumstance [of our own body, being a 'house' [or prison] for our spirit(s)]...

Matthew 12:43
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44  Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45  Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

John 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20  Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21  But he spake of the temple of his body.

Acts 7:46
Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
47  But Solomon built him an house.
48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4  For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened....

2 Peter 1:13
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14  Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15  Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.



There is also this description of the nature of the relationship between God [spirit] and man [flesh], attributed to Moses;



Numbers 16:22
And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

and;

Numbers 27:16
Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,


One day we must all 'put off' this body, we [our spirit] will be redeemed, OR, not.

What do i believe happens to our spirit, when this body is 'let go' ?


Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If we have faith no more question will intervene this issue..especially about Jesus..for me..Jesus is spiritually there..we cannot see him..but I myself could say that we could feel His presence wherever and whenever we are...all you have to do is to believe.

Superman1 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2011 at 10:38pm:


Means "no other"? Are you saying there can only be one reading of the Bible? Sounds a tad fundamentalist to me.

But your reading is valid. Jesus was adept - as many wise people are - at speaking many different truths at once.

Jesus taught his disciples practical ways of reaching enlightenment - the "Kingdom". Of course, I have no evidence of this, it's just a hunch. A spiritual master (or even God) would not have 12 people following him around for a couple of years if he didn't give them something to take with them.

These techniques are only taught to people who are ready for them. The religion that arose from the teachings of Yeheshua avoided them. In fact, it actively rooted them out during the Council of Nicea, the establishment of the official Roman church ordered by Constantine.

The Nag Hamadi texts, discovered in Egypt in the 1940s, provide a different reading of Yeheshua's teachings to the aproved gospels. Like the Dead Sea scrolls, they have been authenticated (carbon dated to the time of the Council of Nicea). The gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Judas present a different twist to the teachings of the desert mystic that was Jesus. Like the gospels of the New Testament, of course, we have no idea who wrote them.

Some of the Christian spiritual practices were rediscovered in the monastic traditions of medieval Europe. However, the emphasis changed during the reformation, and then in the Enlightenment. The teachings of Jesus became a system of belief, rather than a progressive method of reaching the Kingdom. A lot of monastic practices fell away as the church sought, post-Darwin, to be rational and scientific. In the 19th century it became utilitarian, its focus shifting to welfare and social justice.

After two world wars and the rise of the welfare state, the church occupied a vacuum. Its power and meaning had been stripped away along with with the bells and incense. From this existential crisis, Billy Graham rode in to rescue Christianity. The born-again movement spread throughout Protestant and Catholic arms, but it fueled a then fringe movement, Pentacostalism.

Today, this is the fastest growing Christian movement in the world. In China, underground Pentacostal cells are springing up all over the place. The Australian Hillsong Church has gone international - even spreading in Orthadox communities in Eastern Europe.

Pentacostalism teaches that God performs miracles now - that God can heal, make you happy and make you rich. In the west, it meets an impatient, consumerist population who want instant results and quick fixes. In Australia, research has shown that people stay for an average of five years. After conversion and imersion (Bible study, groups, volunteer programs and missionary service), people tend to lose interest. This pattern could be completely different in other populations, such as China, Eastern Europe, Africa and South America.

This is my own potted history. I'm sure you've got your own. My point is that much of the point of Jesus's teachings have been lost. I believe that if you want to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, you now have to look elsewhere. It's interesting that when the English Buddhist nun, Tenzin Palmo taught in Italian monestaries, they all wanted to learn Buddhist meditation practices over the ancient Christian practices she was trying to teach. Buddhism teaches that you should stick to your own tradition, be it Christian, Muslim or Jew as much as possible. Buddhist teachings are agnostic.

This does not make the Christian religion wrong. It still serves a valuable purpose, particularly in a rational, consumerist world with few ethical teachings. But the belief that you just have to believe that Jesus is God and you're saved from hell is a fundamental error in the teachings of the church. This, of course, is exactly what the Anglican church in Sydney has focused on during the reign of the Jensen brothers. It's what makes Christianity a religion rather than a spiritual path, and it's what leads to much conflict with other religions.

And it's not the point. The point is to develop love for others and a relationship with, or an awareness of, God. Belief in jesus is just the first step in the Christian path, but many believe now that it's the only step, that it's all that's necessary. Once you convert, you're saved. This "baptism of the heart" now occupies the place baptism with water used to occupy. Baptism with water is an initiation used in many spiritual traditions, but it is initiation only. It is not salvation.

Very true, SC. God can and does heal, and baptism is just the first step. I'm not sure about forgiveness of serious crimes against others. I don't know how God or the universe works. But harder than external forgiveness is forgiving yourself.

I'm not sure about other churches. People leave Hillsong on average after five years. Many don't go to other churches. Many lose hope, I think, in the whole prosperity doctrine that they signed up for. Life does not get magically better in all areas once you commit your life to Jesus.

You have an opportunity to change, true, but you have to sieze it. Changing lifelong habits and thinking patterns is very hard.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 6^th, 2011 at 1:35pm:


I have never spoken to any Christian who's had a road to Damascus experience.

You hear a lot of "god told me this", or "God told me that". It's rather convenient sometimes.

There must be a lot of Christians around who never knew Jesus. And yes, Jesus said this himself.

A damascus experience is not very common. Normally he is more gentle i guess ?
But they do occur. he has not changed.


one guy i used to know was given prophesies to tell to others.
The pressure on im was too much, he gave that "gift" back.
It was too much for him.