Australian Politics Forum - The 0.7% Democracy

azulene

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The 0.7% Democracy
Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm

A big chunk of advertising on TV currently is anti-government and comes from the Coal Association of Australia and Imperial Tobacco Australia.

While I am all for freedom of speech and democracy, something about this situation doesn't sit well for me.

Normal advertising is fine, you are selling a product or a service.

But businesses coming in and turning the people against a government for their financial gain?

Who are these businesses? We didn't elect them..

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Is it appropriate for these businesses to control the government for their own financial gains?

Does this still constitute a democracy?

People want to bring the government down for a 0.7% rise in the cost of living.

All this fuelled by a massive advertising campaign from unelected, obscured, and unaccountable private consortiums (owned by which countries?) that want to preserve their bottom line.

Private companies are in control of Australian politics.

It's a 0.7% democracy..

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"In politics stupidity is not a handicap."&& -- Napoleon Bonaparte

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cods

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #1 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 7:09pm

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

A big chunk of advertising on TV currently is anti-government and comes from the Coal Association of Australia and Imperial Tobacco Australia.

While I am all for freedom of speech and democracy, something about this situation doesn't sit well for me.

Normal advertising is fine, you are selling a product or a service.

But businesses coming in and turning the people against a government for their financial gain?

Who are these businesses? We didn't elect them..

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Is it appropriate for these businesses to control the government for their own financial gains?

Does this still constitute a democracy?

People want to bring the government down for a 0.7% rise in the cost of living.

All this fuelled by a massive advertising campaign from unelected, obscured, and unaccountable private consortiums (owned by which countries?) that want to preserve their bottom line.

Private companies are in control of Australian politics.

It's a 0.7% democracy..

SO DID YOU FEEL THE SAME WHEN THE UNIONS SPENT $30mILLION ON ADVERTISING FOR 12 MONTHS IN 2007 TO GET RID OF THE lIBS...

or was that different???????..

talking about cost of living... what will it be in July 2012....have you checked it out lately...I am already having almost $70 per pay extra go out of my funds on direct debits.. thats without the grocery and petrol and car costs and maintenance and insurance.. and it goes on and one..

everything goes up... some things you can avoid.. but others there is no way..give me a break if you think cost of living will go up in July 2012 by o.7% then you are brainwashed..you really are..

the pollies have already given themselves 3% rise plus $1500 tax free B&B..thats now.. ahead of any CARBON TAX... they are already geared to combat their rent may go up poor dears..and the Big Lunches In Manuka . ACT will most definately cost more .. again poor dears.

are we being prepared by being given raises NOW ahead of time.. ?????

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GoddyofOz

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #2 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 7:20pm

cods wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

A big chunk of advertising on TV currently is anti-government and comes from the Coal Association of Australia and Imperial Tobacco Australia.

While I am all for freedom of speech and democracy, something about this situation doesn't sit well for me.

Normal advertising is fine, you are selling a product or a service.

But businesses coming in and turning the people against a government for their financial gain?

Who are these businesses? We didn't elect them..

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Is it appropriate for these businesses to control the government for their own financial gains?

Does this still constitute a democracy?

People want to bring the government down for a 0.7% rise in the cost of living.

All this fuelled by a massive advertising campaign from unelected, obscured, and unaccountable private consortiums (owned by which countries?) that want to preserve their bottom line.

Private companies are in control of Australian politics.

It's a 0.7% democracy..

SO DID YOU FEEL THE SAME WHEN THE UNIONS SPENT $30mILLION ON ADVERTISING FOR 12 MONTHS IN 2007 TO GET RID OF THE lIBS...

or was that different???????..

talking about cost of living... what will it be in July 2012....have you checked it out lately...I am already having almost $70 per pay extra go out of my funds on direct debits.. thats without the grocery and petrol and car costs and maintenance and insurance.. and it goes on and one..

everything goes up... some things you can avoid.. but others there is no way..give me a break if you think cost of living will go up in July 2012 by o.7% then you are brainwashed..you really are..

the pollies have already given themselves 3% rise plus $1500 tax free B&B..thats now.. ahead of any CARBON TAX... they are already geared to combat their rent may go up poor dears..and the Big Lunches In Manuka . ACT will most definately cost more .. again poor dears.

are we being prepared by being given raises NOW ahead of time.. ?????

How, pray tell, did you come to lump Trade Unions in with Corporations? I believe one is there to protect workers and the other is there to make money.

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azulene

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #3 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 7:36pm

cods wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

A big chunk of advertising on TV currently is anti-government and comes from the Coal Association of Australia and Imperial Tobacco Australia.

While I am all for freedom of speech and democracy, something about this situation doesn't sit well for me.

Normal advertising is fine, you are selling a product or a service.

But businesses coming in and turning the people against a government for their financial gain?

Who are these businesses? We didn't elect them..

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Is it appropriate for these businesses to control the government for their own financial gains?

Does this still constitute a democracy?

People want to bring the government down for a 0.7% rise in the cost of living.

All this fuelled by a massive advertising campaign from unelected, obscured, and unaccountable private consortiums (owned by which countries?) that want to preserve their bottom line.

Private companies are in control of Australian politics.

It's a 0.7% democracy..

SO DID YOU FEEL THE SAME WHEN THE UNIONS SPENT $30mILLION ON ADVERTISING FOR 12 MONTHS IN 2007 TO GET RID OF THE lIBS...

or was that different???????..

talking about cost of living... what will it be in July 2012....have you checked it out lately...I am already having almost $70 per pay extra go out of my funds on direct debits.. thats without the grocery and petrol and car costs and maintenance and insurance.. and it goes on and one..

everything goes up... some things you can avoid.. but others there is no way..give me a break if you think cost of living will go up in July 2012 by o.7% then you are brainwashed..you really are..

the pollies have already given themselves 3% rise plus $1500 tax free B&B..thats now.. ahead of any CARBON TAX... they are already geared to combat their rent may go up poor dears..and the Big Lunches In Manuka . ACT will most definately cost more .. again poor dears.

are we being prepared by being given raises NOW ahead of time.. ?????

The unions are political organisations of / for Australian workers and actually represent part of our society. They are not blindly driven by money.

Big bad who knows who owns them companies lobbying government directly is fine.

The government is accountable to us and meant to deal with that.

However, big bad who knows who owns them companies from over seas coming in and interfering with our democracy, there is something seriously wrong with that.

They are not accountable like the government is and they are not elected. They are completely driven by money and we don't even know if those people can vote in this country. They can cause disasters and just vanish.

And Tony Abbott is all about embracing this 0.7% democracy.

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"In politics stupidity is not a handicap."&& -- Napoleon Bonaparte

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freediver

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #4 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 8:18pm

So what do you suggest we do about it? Ban certain companies from speaking out in their own interest?

The coal and tobacco companies are taking a huge risk with this. You cannot actually buy public opinion and the risk of backfire is not insignificant. Our democracy is mature enough to handle this.

We have far bigger problems with companies donating to political parties. That is where your concern should be.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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azulene

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #5 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 10:30pm

freediver wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 8:18pm:

So what do you suggest we do about it? Ban certain companies from speaking out in their own interest?

The coal and tobacco companies are taking a huge risk with this. You cannot actually buy public opinion and the risk of backfire is not insignificant. Our democracy is mature enough to handle this.

We have far bigger problems with companies donating to political parties. That is where your concern should be.

Hmm, hit a nerve hey? Who is your sponsor?

BTW, this is how a little noticed issue becomes a bigger one. Bullying. Don't like it at all. Being told what to think or what to be concerned about. Not a fan. In your opinion our democracy is "mature enough to handle it"? Yet you nudged me to a less popular thread when my thread was as political as you can get.... Is this sort of "censoring" your version of a "mature democracy"? I can see what sort of democracy you subscribe to. Fair enough.

I suggest we ban foreign companies from political interference with our democracy.

Who the bugger do they think they are?

Our society is not about their multi billion dollar profits.

People who cannot vote in this country really ought to have no word in how it is run.

Isn't what they are doing in breech of media laws?

I think it is.

You can buy public opinion, what a crock.

Now, how can I make this vomitus affront to our democracy backfire?

How can I increase their risks?

Guess I will start poking around and waking people up.

Thanks for bullying me into action

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"In politics stupidity is not a handicap."&& -- Napoleon Bonaparte

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azulene Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 701 Gender:	Re: The 0.7% Democracy Reply #6 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:00pm So now I have emailed these concerns to the PM and all the Greens Senators. Hope it doesn't backfire like you suggested
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gizmo_2655

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #7 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:02pm

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Actually Philip Morris International is a competitor to Imperial Tobacco...

And PMI is headquartered in New York, and Imperial is headquatered in Bristol...

The only Hong Kong connection is a licensing deal with British-American Tobacco over brand names in HK....whhich in turn gives them rights under the Australia-Hong Kong Biliateral Investment treaty...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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azulene

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #8 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:18pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:02pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Actually Philip Morris International is a competitor to Imperial Tobacco...

And PMI is headquartered in New York, and Imperial is headquatered in Bristol...

The only Hong Kong connection is a licensing deal with British-American Tobacco over brand names in HK....whhich in turn gives them rights under the Australia-Hong Kong Biliateral Investment treaty...

Not exactly responsible, concerned Australian citizens though?...

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"In politics stupidity is not a handicap."&& -- Napoleon Bonaparte

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #9 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:21pm

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:18pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:02pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Actually Philip Morris International is a competitor to Imperial Tobacco...

And PMI is headquartered in New York, and Imperial is headquatered in Bristol...

The only Hong Kong connection is a licensing deal with British-American Tobacco over brand names in HK....whhich in turn gives them rights under the Australia-Hong Kong Biliateral Investment treaty...

Not exactly responsible, concerned Australian citizens though?...

But neither are they Hong Kong based...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5458 Gender:	Re: The 0.7% Democracy Reply #10 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:39pm The isue here is freedom of speech, not the nature of the messenger or the message that is being promoted.
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azulene

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #11 - Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:44pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:21pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:18pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:02pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Actually Philip Morris International is a competitor to Imperial Tobacco...

And PMI is headquartered in New York, and Imperial is headquatered in Bristol...

The only Hong Kong connection is a licensing deal with British-American Tobacco over brand names in HK....whhich in turn gives them rights under the Australia-Hong Kong Biliateral Investment treaty...

Not exactly responsible, concerned Australian citizens though?...

But neither are they Hong Kong based...

They aren't based in Australia.

Thanks for qualifying my "who knows who from who knows where" statement. You did all the work for me

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"In politics stupidity is not a handicap."&& -- Napoleon Bonaparte

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astro_surf

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #12 - Aug 19^th, 2011 at 12:06am

Why the bugger was this thread moved???? How much more randomly arbitrary can you get, Mozz? How is this not as relevant to Aus politics than anything else posted thee everyday? I could understand if you were trying to maintain some standards and have the board running like it may have once been set up to work. But that would require consistency. You know, attract traffic to the General Board by moving all intelligent threads too and keeping the material that should be classed under politicians sucking by putting leaving the rates and hate-posts in the Politicians Suck forum, designating to the trash can of discourse that it is. Instead, you are arbitrarily moving random posts from the one forum that attracts any traffic and essentially silencing a point that is very effing valid and important to Australian politics. No wonder this place is so f*cked. You mods are complete idiots.

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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am:

So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&

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astro_surf

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #13 - Aug 19^th, 2011 at 12:15am

freediver wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 8:18pm:

So what do you suggest we do about it? Ban certain companies from speaking out in their own interest?

How about restricting the amount of money ALL companies can spend on political advertising? How about making ALL political advertising dependent on public funds so that particularly wealthy and powerful companies can't unduly influence the democratic system? There are many ways to regulate our democracy without impinging on the rights of companies and individuals to have their say. but there is no reason why there should be a natural right to use wealth and power to manipulate the political system.

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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 11:23am:

So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The 0.7% Democracy
Reply #14 - Aug 19^th, 2011 at 12:34am

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:44pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:21pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:18pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 11:02pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

Are they even Australians? I know Imperial Tobacco Australia is a big chunk Philip Morris which is Hong Kong. Why is Hong Kong deciding government issues in Australia?

Actually Philip Morris International is a competitor to Imperial Tobacco...

And PMI is headquartered in New York, and Imperial is headquatered in Bristol...

The only Hong Kong connection is a licensing deal with British-American Tobacco over brand names in HK....whhich in turn gives them rights under the Australia-Hong Kong Biliateral Investment treaty...

Not exactly responsible, concerned Australian citizens though?...

But neither are they Hong Kong based...

They aren't based in Australia.

Thanks for qualifying my "who knows who from who knows where" statement. You did all the work for me

No problem..

But if you're going to go off about a company, or companies.....it's a good idea to have the right info about them....other wise you end up having to do 'retraction theads'...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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