Australian Politics Forum - Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #150 - Aug 30^th, 2011 at 6:21am

Grey wrote on Aug 30^th, 2011 at 1:16am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 11:06pm:

Grey wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 10:47pm:

The answer has to be 'no' in all honesty. Nothing that IS can be deemed irrelevant. The question really is - 'can you eradicate superstition?' I very much doubt it.

True. Its almost a certainty that superstition cannot fully be eradicated... Even atheists sometimes feel compelled to touch wood.

I have this deep rooted fear that women can read my mind. Whenever I have a dirty thought they turn around and stare at me.

Yeah, ain't that the truth... That fear got so bad in me that at one stage that I actually had to stop publicly masturbating.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia? Reply #151 - Aug 30^th, 2011 at 6:22am
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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #152 - Aug 30^th, 2011 at 5:38pm

To be human is to experience self-consciousness, to know separation, to be made aware of limits, and to contemplate ends. One cannot be human therefore without being filled with chronic anxiety, It sounds depressing, but surely it is true. Animals don't need caffeine to start the day, or anti depressants to combat suicidal thoughts.

As the realisation of mortality grew in humans a dreadful sense of anxiety gripped them. The most powerful coping device of all , and the one that I suspect did more to secure this evolutionary breakthrough than any other at the dawn of self-consciousness, was the birth of a theistic concept of God and thus the beginning of what we now call religion.

An emotional thermostat designed to control that hysteria had to be created, survival required it. The creation of various theistic religious forms was the major component of that thermostat.

Whatever the catalyst it finally dawned on human beings to postulate a male deity who ruled the sky and related to the female deity identified with the earth. In time the rain came to be thought of as divine semen that sent from Father Sky to impregnate (fertilise) Mother Earth to make her bear new life and bring forth new fruit.

We should expect to see shock, trauma and hysteria return in countless numbers of ways when theism dies as it is doing today.

But in place of that grovelling to the God of theism, we will be able to open ourselves in new ways to discover the ground of being that is met and known in the self that is emerging as expanded consciousness.

taken from A New Christianity for a New World John Shelby Spong.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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freediver

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #153 - Aug 30^th, 2011 at 7:19pm

Soren wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 11:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 7:30pm:

It is natural and occurs in other non-human animals that tend to form pair bonds. It even occurs in non-primates and non-mammals. There is even a Darwinian explanation for it.

It may well be natural as a way of providing relief of sexual tension. Animals have been documented to use all sorts of substitutes to a mat of their own species to relief sexual tension.

On that account, should people be able to marry their blow up dolls?? Their horses, goats, sheep?

I wasn't talking about sexual gratification. Other animals form homsexual pair bonds that resemble heterosexual ones in every detail except sexual reproduction. These can exclude sex altogether.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #154 - Aug 30^th, 2011 at 9:13pm

Grey wrote on Aug 30^th, 2011 at 1:13am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 30^th, 2011 at 12:08am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 10:50pm:

Grey wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 10:47pm:

The answer has to be 'no' in all honesty. Nothing that IS can be deemed irrelevant. The question really is - 'can you eradicate superstition?' I very much doubt it.

Perhaps we ought to be asking .. can we eradicate what some of us perceive as superstition because the blinkers which help us interpret the world .. fail to grasp what religion is all about?

Food for thought hey.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110714103828.htm

Humans 'Predisposed' to Believe in Gods and the Afterlife

We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies. This suggests that attempts to suppress religion are likely to be short-lived as human thought seems to be rooted to religious concepts, such as the existence of supernatural agents or gods, and the possibility of an afterlife or pre-life.'

A bit more food for thought.

Ok .. night all .. this busy bee needs to be up at 6 am.

Humans are also 'predisposed' to take hallucinatory drugs

In short .. you have nothing.

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muso

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #155 - Aug 30^th, 2011 at 9:46pm

freediver wrote on Aug 30^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 11:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 7:30pm:

It is natural and occurs in other non-human animals that tend to form pair bonds. It even occurs in non-primates and non-mammals. There is even a Darwinian explanation for it.

It may well be natural as a way of providing relief of sexual tension. Animals have been documented to use all sorts of substitutes to a mat of their own species to relief sexual tension.

On that account, should people be able to marry their blow up dolls?? Their horses, goats, sheep?

I wasn't talking about sexual gratification. Other animals form homsexual pair bonds that resemble heterosexual ones in every detail except sexual reproduction. These can exclude sex altogether.

It begs the question - if something is "natural", does it automatically qualify as "good" or "ok"?

In other words, why is it important? Is being natural some kind of precedent?

M'lud, my client was merely practising a perfectly natural activity on that particular night on the train in full view of other passengers, and I bring your attention to exhibit A - the learned paper entitled "The masturbation habits of Wildebeests"

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1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

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Grey

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #156 - Aug 31^st, 2011 at 7:33am

muso wrote on Aug 30^th, 2011 at 9:46pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 30^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 11:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 7:30pm:

It is natural and occurs in other non-human animals that tend to form pair bonds. It even occurs in non-primates and non-mammals. There is even a Darwinian explanation for it.

It may well be natural as a way of providing relief of sexual tension. Animals have been documented to use all sorts of substitutes to a mat of their own species to relief sexual tension.

On that account, should people be able to marry their blow up dolls?? Their horses, goats, sheep?

I wasn't talking about sexual gratification. Other animals form homsexual pair bonds that resemble heterosexual ones in every detail except sexual reproduction. These can exclude sex altogether.

It begs the question - if something is "natural", does it automatically qualify as "good" or "ok"?

In other words, why is it important? Is being natural some kind of precedent?

M'lud, my client was merely practising a perfectly natural activity on that particular night on the train in full view of other passengers, and I bring your attention to exhibit A - the learned paper entitled "The masturbation habits of Wildebeests"

Very witty Muso, but doesn't it come down to 'first do no harm'. I as a heterosexual suffer no harm if the couple next door are homosexual. But they are harmed very much and very often by the irrational prejudices they are subjected to by their 'otherness'.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #157 - Aug 31^st, 2011 at 8:03am

<<Very witty Muso, but doesn't it come down to 'first do no harm'. I as a heterosexual suffer no harm if the couple next door are homosexual. But they are harmed very much and very often by the irrational prejudices they are subjected to by their 'otherness'. >>
................................................................................

I don't think that it is so much to do with the people or the action.The church likes to wield power, power over anything or group that goes against their principles, the principles that they don't uphold themselves. If the church gives in on homosexual marriage it will be seen as a weakening within their institution.

They will eventually. The RC church is gradually backing down on some issues ie condoms in developing countries.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Grey

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #158 - Aug 31^st, 2011 at 9:06am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 31^st, 2011 at 8:03am:

<<Very witty Muso, but doesn't it come down to 'first do no harm'. I as a heterosexual suffer no harm if the couple next door are homosexual. But they are harmed very much and very often by the irrational prejudices they are subjected to by their 'otherness'. >>
................................................................................

I don't think that it is so much to do with the people or the action.The church likes to wield power, power over anything or group that goes against their principles, the principles that they don't uphold themselves. If the church gives in on homosexual marriage it will be seen as a weakening within their institution.

They will eventually. The RC church is gradually backing down on some issues ie condoms in developing countries.

Yeah, a very few years ago they even apologised to Galileo Grin

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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freediver

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #159 - Aug 31^st, 2011 at 8:49pm

muso wrote on Aug 30^th, 2011 at 9:46pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 30^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 11:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 29^th, 2011 at 7:30pm:

It is natural and occurs in other non-human animals that tend to form pair bonds. It even occurs in non-primates and non-mammals. There is even a Darwinian explanation for it.

It may well be natural as a way of providing relief of sexual tension. Animals have been documented to use all sorts of substitutes to a mat of their own species to relief sexual tension.

On that account, should people be able to marry their blow up dolls?? Their horses, goats, sheep?

I wasn't talking about sexual gratification. Other animals form homsexual pair bonds that resemble heterosexual ones in every detail except sexual reproduction. These can exclude sex altogether.

It begs the question - if something is "natural", does it automatically qualify as "good" or "ok"?

In other words, why is it important? Is being natural some kind of precedent?

M'lud, my client was merely practising a perfectly natural activity on that particular night on the train in full view of other passengers, and I bring your attention to exhibit A - the learned paper entitled "The masturbation habits of Wildebeests"

At the very least it suffices against the claim that homosexuality is unnatural.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia? Reply #160 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 7:27pm Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia? After 11 pages of debate .. have we a final answer to this question?
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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia? Reply #161 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 7:50pm Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 7:27pm: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia? After 11 pages of debate .. have we a final answer to this question? Nah, just a stupid rhetorical question!
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?
Reply #162 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:14pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 7:27pm:

Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia?

After 11 pages of debate .. have we a final answer to this question?

Perhaps this article answers the question.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110714103828.htm

Humans 'Predisposed' to Believe in Gods and the Afterlife

We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies. This suggests that attempts to suppress religion are likely to be short-lived as human thought seems to be rooted to religious concepts, such as the existence of supernatural agents or gods, and the possibility of an afterlife or pre-life.'

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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tbc New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 13	Re: Is Religion doomed to irrelevence in Australia? Reply #163 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 11:17pm as long as were a diverse country there'll be all sorts of beliefs floatin around.
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