Australian Politics Forum - Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax

stryder

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4545
Gender: male

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #15 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:52am

Quote:

Climate change deniers can only demonstrate they have a shallow understanding of science

By azulene

Oh I see so you climate change zealots have such an understanding of science that you lot feel compelled THAT BIG BROTHER CAN TELL US WHAT TO DO ALL OF A SUDDEN, DICTATE HOW GUILTY WE SHOULD FEEL ABOUT IT AND BE PUNISHED WITH A TAX THAT WILL DO NOTHING

Typical lefties, No wonder the majority of australians depise your guts over this issue,

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 2:12am by stryder »

IP Logged

gizmo_2655

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16010
South West NSW
Gender: male

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #16 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:14am

azulene wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:46am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 3:13pm:

adelcrow wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 3:05pm:

People are whinging about a $23 a tonne carbon tax despite the fact that most people will end up with more money in their pockets if they show a little common sense and the longer we wait the greater the damage and the higher the financial cost.
How much did the Queensland floods cost this country and how much did the decade of drought cost? Now think of those events being more frequent and more extreme.
I can tell the Tea Baggers..the cost of doing nothing is going to be far greater than $23 a tonne.

No actually you CAN'T 'tell' them that.....you only THINK it is so....

There is NO, repeat NO, historical experience that will justify that idea....
You're basing that idea on the belief that the current climate change IS manmade.....if it isn't, then the 'cost of doing nothing' is.......nothing.

So we have to wait until it's history to be able to make your style of old fashion judgement?
Climate change deniers can only demonstrate they have a shallow understanding of science.

Yes that's about it....After all, there's no way to tell YET if there are natural balances that control the upper limit on temperatures vs Co2 levels, or even if it's only Co2 that controls temps...Maybe Henrik Svensmark is right after all....

Back to top

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #17 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:32am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:14am:

azulene wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:46am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 3:13pm:

adelcrow wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 3:05pm:

People are whinging about a $23 a tonne carbon tax despite the fact that most people will end up with more money in their pockets if they show a little common sense and the longer we wait the greater the damage and the higher the financial cost.
How much did the Queensland floods cost this country and how much did the decade of drought cost? Now think of those events being more frequent and more extreme.
I can tell the Tea Baggers..the cost of doing nothing is going to be far greater than $23 a tonne.

No actually you CAN'T 'tell' them that.....you only THINK it is so....

There is NO, repeat NO, historical experience that will justify that idea....
You're basing that idea on the belief that the current climate change IS manmade.....if it isn't, then the 'cost of doing nothing' is.......nothing.

So we have to wait until it's history to be able to make your style of old fashion judgement?
Climate change deniers can only demonstrate they have a shallow understanding of science.

Yes that's about it....After all, there's no way to tell YET if there are natural balances that control the upper limit on temperatures vs Co2 levels, or even if it's only Co2 that controls temps...Maybe Henrik Svensmark is right after all....

be careful not to debate science on here. that's only allowed if you support the orthodoxy.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

gizmo_2655

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16010
South West NSW
Gender: male

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #18 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:34am

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:32am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:14am:

azulene wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:46am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 3:13pm:

adelcrow wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 3:05pm:

People are whinging about a $23 a tonne carbon tax despite the fact that most people will end up with more money in their pockets if they show a little common sense and the longer we wait the greater the damage and the higher the financial cost.
How much did the Queensland floods cost this country and how much did the decade of drought cost? Now think of those events being more frequent and more extreme.
I can tell the Tea Baggers..the cost of doing nothing is going to be far greater than $23 a tonne.

No actually you CAN'T 'tell' them that.....you only THINK it is so....

There is NO, repeat NO, historical experience that will justify that idea....
You're basing that idea on the belief that the current climate change IS manmade.....if it isn't, then the 'cost of doing nothing' is.......nothing.

So we have to wait until it's history to be able to make your style of old fashion judgement?
Climate change deniers can only demonstrate they have a shallow understanding of science.

Yes that's about it....After all, there's no way to tell YET if there are natural balances that control the upper limit on temperatures vs Co2 levels, or even if it's only Co2 that controls temps...Maybe Henrik Svensmark is right after all....

be careful not to debate science on here. that's only allowed if you support the orthodoxy.

I know, that's why I challenge the orthodoxy every chance I get.......Because that is what science is about...

Back to top

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #19 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:38am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:34am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:32am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 8:14am:

azulene wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:46am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 3:13pm:

adelcrow wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 3:05pm:

People are whinging about a $23 a tonne carbon tax despite the fact that most people will end up with more money in their pockets if they show a little common sense and the longer we wait the greater the damage and the higher the financial cost.
How much did the Queensland floods cost this country and how much did the decade of drought cost? Now think of those events being more frequent and more extreme.
I can tell the Tea Baggers..the cost of doing nothing is going to be far greater than $23 a tonne.

No actually you CAN'T 'tell' them that.....you only THINK it is so....

There is NO, repeat NO, historical experience that will justify that idea....
You're basing that idea on the belief that the current climate change IS manmade.....if it isn't, then the 'cost of doing nothing' is.......nothing.

So we have to wait until it's history to be able to make your style of old fashion judgement?
Climate change deniers can only demonstrate they have a shallow understanding of science.

Yes that's about it....After all, there's no way to tell YET if there are natural balances that control the upper limit on temperatures vs Co2 levels, or even if it's only Co2 that controls temps...Maybe Henrik Svensmark is right after all....

be careful not to debate science on here. that's only allowed if you support the orthodoxy.

I know, that's why I challenge the orthodoxy every chance I get.......Because that is what science is about...

I know that and you know that, but most of the wankers on here treat science like a policy document and defend it from a partisan political position. very few of them have any real idea what science even is - and they are the loudest voices.

Al 'I invented the internet' Gore??

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49458
At my desk.

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #20 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 9:53am

stryder wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:52am:

Quote:

Climate change deniers can only demonstrate they have a shallow understanding of science

By azulene

Oh I see so you climate change zealots have such an understanding of science that you lot feel compelled THAT BIG BROTHER CAN TELL US WHAT TO DO ALL OF A SUDDEN, DICTATE HOW GUILTY WE SHOULD FEEL ABOUT IT AND BE PUNISHED WITH A TAX THAT WILL DO NOTHING

Typical lefties, No wonder the majority of australians depise your guts over this issue,

The government has always had a mandate to tax. This was not invented recently. Furthermore, the tax will reduce our emissions and is the cheapest way to do so.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

adelcrow

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #21 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:24am

Crikey Howard gave us the Ansett levy, gun buy back levy, sugar levy, milk levy, Timor levy, the GST and on top of that he led the highest taxing govt in this countries history. Labor gave us 30 billion dollars of tax cuts, maintained employment, lowered interest rates and kept our standard of living as one of the highest on the globe and all this throughout the Global Financial Crises.
And all the Tea Baggers can do is complain about a revenue neutral carbon tax, gay marriage and a few thousand asylum seekers (our annual migration target is 180,000)..kinda says alot about them Grin

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:33am by adelcrow »

Go the Bunnies

IP Logged

Maqqa

Gold Member

Offline

14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #22 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:42am

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 9:53am:

The government has always had a mandate to tax. This was not invented recently. Furthermore, the tax will reduce our emissions and is the cheapest way to do so.

how you figure?

Labor tells us they will compensate us fully for the tax so there's no driver to cut emissions

Back to top

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

IP Logged

adelcrow

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #23 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:48am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:42am:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 9:53am:

The government has always had a mandate to tax. This was not invented recently. Furthermore, the tax will reduce our emissions and is the cheapest way to do so.

how you figure?

Labor tells us they will compensate us fully for the tax so there's no driver to cut emissions

Well Maqqa Im sure you are intelligent enough not to need the whole thing explained to you yet again.
Simply put, you can change the way you use energy and pocket the compensation to offset the tax or spend on your mortgage etc or you can be stubborn and keep chugging down that carbon intensive energy and save nothing.
The money collected will also go to research and development and helping carbon intensive industries change to renewables.
This has only been explained to you a few hundred times.

Back to top

Go the Bunnies

IP Logged

Maqqa

Gold Member

Offline

14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #24 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:49am

adelcrow wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:48am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:42am:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 9:53am:

The government has always had a mandate to tax. This was not invented recently. Furthermore, the tax will reduce our emissions and is the cheapest way to do so.

how you figure?

Labor tells us they will compensate us fully for the tax so there's no driver to cut emissions

Well Maqqa Im sure you are intelligent enough not to need the whole thing explained to you yet again.
Simply put, you can change the way you use energy and pocket the compensation to offset the tax or spend on your mortgage etc or you can be stubborn and keep chugging down that carbon intensive energy and save nothing.
The money collected will also go to research and development and helping carbon intensive industries change to renewables.
This has only been explained to you a few hundred times.

I am talking about the 10.20/week Gillard was talking about

As for Industries they just pass it onto consumers

Back to top

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49458
At my desk.

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #25 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 11:00am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:42am:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 9:53am:

The government has always had a mandate to tax. This was not invented recently. Furthermore, the tax will reduce our emissions and is the cheapest way to do so.

how you figure?

Labor tells us they will compensate us fully for the tax so there's no driver to cut emissions

Sure there is. Do you really think they are so stupid? You need to stop parroting Truss.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/coalition-climate-change-policy.html#warren-tr...

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Maqqa

Gold Member

Offline

14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #26 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 11:07am

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 11:00am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:42am:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 9:53am:

The government has always had a mandate to tax. This was not invented recently. Furthermore, the tax will reduce our emissions and is the cheapest way to do so.

how you figure?

Labor tells us they will compensate us fully for the tax so there's no driver to cut emissions

Sure there is. Do you really think they are so stupid? You need to stop parroting Truss.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/coalition-climate-change-policy.html#warren-tr...

As I said - it's all about context

No scientist have EVER been able to provide context around how much (in percentage terms) do humans contribute to carbon emissions

If we contribute 1% then changing our habits will have at best 1% impact

Its called can't see the forest for the trees

In the above example you are telling us 1 tree constitute the whole forest

Back to top

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

IP Logged

stryder Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4545 Gender:	Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax Reply #27 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 11:22am Quote: the tax will reduce our emissions By freediver Freediver HOW DO YOU MEASURE IF IT WORKS OR NOT, HUH what instrument is there to measure that THIS TAX WILL DO SUCH A THING Doesnt those who are going to be forced to pay this ridicolous tax HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW ???
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49458
At my desk.

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #28 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 12:35pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 11:07am:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 11:00am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 10:42am:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 9:53am:

The government has always had a mandate to tax. This was not invented recently. Furthermore, the tax will reduce our emissions and is the cheapest way to do so.

how you figure?

Labor tells us they will compensate us fully for the tax so there's no driver to cut emissions

Sure there is. Do you really think they are so stupid? You need to stop parroting Truss.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/coalition-climate-change-policy.html#warren-tr...

As I said - it's all about context

No scientist have EVER been able to provide context around how much (in percentage terms) do humans contribute to carbon emissions

If we contribute 1% then changing our habits will have at best 1% impact

Its called can't see the forest for the trees

In the above example you are telling us 1 tree constitute the whole forest

I notice you changed the topic from economics to science pretty qucikly. Is this your way of admitting you were completely wrong on the economics?

Quote:

Freediver HOW DO YOU MEASURE IF IT WORKS OR NOT, HUH

I don't, but economists have ways, so I leave it up to them. Though if you understood the economics you would see it is merely an excerise in proving the obvious.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

stryder

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4545
Gender: male

Re: Abbott denies climate change advocates carbon tax
Reply #29 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:16pm

Quote:

I don't, but economists have ways, so I leave it up to them. Though if you understood the economics you would see it is merely an excerise in proving the obvious.

by freediver

Thats a striking point what I highlighted dont you think freediver ??

VAST MAJORITY OF THESE ECONOMISTS COULDNT SEE THE GFC HIT THE GLOBE THAT WAS BACK IN 2008 BUT YOU TRUST THEM ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THERE FUTURE PROJECTIONS WHERE A CARBON POLICY LIKE THE CARBON TAX WILL GO IN 10 YEARS TO 50 YEARS ????

Yep, that speaks volumes about it, freediver.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:24pm by stryder »

IP Logged