Australian Politics Forum - "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax"

FRED. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3698	Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax" Reply #30 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:38pm Quote: Lest not forget the increase in renewables is to also HELP take pressure off dwindling resources, so maybe our kids can have some. However, lets do the nothing approach and just leave your kids big houses.... They all ready own big houses
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Maqqa

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax
Reply #31 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:40pm

O))) wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:31pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 7:56am:

azulene wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 6:13pm:

Australia is responsible only for its own emissions. However, once we do something we will have a standing point to pressure other countries.

How and why would they even care that we have a "standing point"???

There is no pressure.

So if I bought a Ferrari just that mean I get to pressure you into buying the EXACT same Ferrari?

So this so-called "STANDING POINT" is at best a self-bestowed moral high ground that no one cares about!!

You wouldn't pressure another person into buying the exact same Ferrari, more like they would feel pressure because everybody else is getting Ferrari's while they still have a Toyota.

If everybody else is taking steps forward then it reflects badly on those staying behind and possibly they will fear being left behind. It is not about an individual country putting pressure on others. The pressure stems from a group of countries taking steps toward the same goal.

This is why Rudd's beloved Kyoto Protocol was a farce

191 signed up and only 35 had any real financial penalty

So what can 35 countries as a group do to "pressure" the 156 countries?

If they have then why did Copenhagen was such a disaster?

This is why Wong was sacked

This is why Garrett was sacked

Both are scapegoats for Rudd's incompetence

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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vegitamite Ex Member	Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax Reply #32 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:41pm Let start to discuss one of Abbotts Direct action options, giving money to farmers to give up some of their land for Carbon Storage in the ground. Positives and negatives anyone? come on libs, you all seem to know so much about Gillards 'failed price on carbon' that you must be experts?
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FRED. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3698	Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax" Reply #33 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:43pm Quote: Let start to discuss one of Abbotts Direct action options, giving money to farmers to give up some of their land for Carbon Storage in the ground. Positives and negatives anyone? Dont you have your own opinion
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vegitamite

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax"
Reply #34 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:44pm

FRED. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

Quote:

Let start to discuss one of Abbotts Direct action options, giving money to farmers to give up some of their land for Carbon Storage in the ground.

Positives and negatives anyone?

Dont you have your own opinion

No, you sell Abbotts policy to me after all your voting for it?

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax" Reply #35 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:44pm Gillard's carbon tax on a family of 4 - Increase cost of living groceries - $996 Tax cut benefits - ($3) Overall - $993 worse off. Source - Australian Treasury. Great idea isn't it????
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FRED.

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax"
Reply #36 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:46pm

Quote:

FRED. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

Quote:

Let start to discuss one of Abbotts Direct action options, giving money to farmers to give up some of their land for Carbon Storage in the ground.

Positives and negatives anyone?

Dont you have your own opinion

No, you sell Abbotts policy to me after all your voting for it?

OK so you dont have an opinon so dont comment

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Maqqa

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax"
Reply #37 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:47pm

Quote:

Let start to discuss one of Abbotts Direct action options, giving money to farmers to give up some of their land for Carbon Storage in the ground.

Positives and negatives anyone?

Lets start with:

(1) The fact that we can't see the forest for the trees in the AGW debate

(2) If we use the analogy of a forest of 100 trees representing all carbon emissions in the world - how many trees belongs to humans

(3) Discussing Australia's carbon tax vs direct action plan is like discussing how action of a small twig on a branch on a tree will impact the whole forest

(4) In saying that - Australians live on that twig and any action on that twig may kill the twig but does nothing to the branch or tree or to the forest

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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skippy.

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax"
Reply #38 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:48pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:44pm:

Gillard's carbon tax on a family of 4 -

Increase cost of living groceries - $996

Tax cut benefits - ($3)

Overall - $993 worse off.

Source - Australian Treasury.

Great idea isn't it????

That only affects a very small amount of people that can afford it anyway. The great majority will be better off. Abbott's plan on the other hand will make EVERYONE worse off,but really who cares about your opinion? you don't even live here.

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freediver

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax"
Reply #39 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:53pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:28pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:24pm:

Quote:

All it does is make Aussie families poorer - it does nothing to resolve the environmental issues.

It will reduce our emissions.

Which will do nothing for the global climate.

So we're making our families poorer and allowing the Chinks to just keep polluting more?

Great.

It works like this Andrei. You have domestic policy for domestic issues, and foreign policy for the international issues. It helps if you don't confuse them. Both major parties have sensible and almost identical policies for handling the global context. It is nothing more than a waste of space to criticise the tax for not solving the entire global problem while ignoring the policies that do address them.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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vegitamite

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax"
Reply #40 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:54pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:44pm:

Gillard's carbon tax on a family of 4 -

Increase cost of living groceries - $996

Tax cut benefits - ($3)

Overall - $993 worse off.

Source - Australian Treasury.

Great idea isn't it????

Double and add another half through the direct action plan of the Coalitions.

Gillard Carbon pricing. $9.90 extra weekly household cost average family
$10.10 average weekly assistance to households,

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vegitamite Ex Member	Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax" Reply #41 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:56pm I can see why those that support Abbott, do so?
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Maqqa

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax"
Reply #42 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:57pm

Quote:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:44pm:

Gillard's carbon tax on a family of 4 -

Increase cost of living groceries - $996

Tax cut benefits - ($3)

Overall - $993 worse off.

Source - Australian Treasury.

Great idea isn't it????

Double and add another half through the direct action plan of the Coalitions.

Gillard Carbon pricing. $9.90 extra weekly household cost average family
$10.10 average weekly assistance to households,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/2791624/data/key-figures-promo-image-dat...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/2788516/data/emissions-grapha-image-data...

because there are are pretty pictures therefore it must be true

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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O)))

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Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax
Reply #43 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:57pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:40pm:

This is why Rudd's beloved Kyoto Protocol was a farce

191 signed up and only 35 had any real financial penalty

So what can 35 countries as a group do to "pressure" the 156 countries?

If they have then why did Copenhagen was such a disaster?

This is why Wong was sacked

This is why Garrett was sacked

Both are scapegoats for Rudd's incompetence

The point I was making wasn't about Rudd or Kyoto. Just making it clear that I don't want my post affiliated with an attack on any political party. That wasn't what I was trying to get across.

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« Last Edit: Sep 4^th, 2011 at 3:02pm by O))) »

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FRED. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3698	Re: "Direct Action" vs "Carbon Tax" Reply #44 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 2:58pm Quote: I can see why those that support Abbott, do so? ISthat an opinion NNS
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