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Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance (Read 9178 times)
barnaby joe
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #15 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 3:59pm
 
are they trots? trots are the worst
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Stewart
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #16 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:06pm
 
Welcome to fractured scene of fringe politics.
caution discussion of socialist parties in australia
In simple terms Alternative is Trotskyist and Alliance is more inclined to Stalinism.

you have missed a third organization, Solidarity which is also Trotskyist. In the 1990s a schism emerged in the International Socialist Organisation(ISO). This is why Socialist Alternative is alternative, they are mainly located around Melbourne. Solidarity split away from ISO in the early 00s and what was left of ISO (And others organisation) later went on to form Socialist Alliance, a Stalinist organization they were aligned with the Democratic Socialist Party (now merged with Alliance) their publication is Green Left Weekly. In 2008 following their withdrawal from Socialist Alliance ISO joined Solidarity, Alternative was not invited to this merger.  Oh yeah there was another split from DSP, in 2008 known as the Revolutionary Socialist Party.

Confused yet?
So whats the difference
Alternative has been highly critical of most other organisations and of the Labor government, arguing that a Labor government is almost as bad as the Libs/Nats. It has been extremely critical of Alliance on virtually every policy they have. I would have to do some searching for specific examples. Of the organizations, Alternative place very little importance on straight electoral work. They have also been critical of Solidarity, there was a lot of thuggery between SA solidarity of the latter purportedly supporting the Gillard Governments then proposed East Timor Solution. Recently SA approached Solidarity about merging together, arguing that their policies were very similar as opposed to those published by Green Left Weekly. Solidarity gave them a very stiff Get stuffed.

Hope this helps

NB - I would like to remind the reader that S.A is Alternative and Not Alliance, sorry for any confusion.
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Tony Bradshaw
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #17 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:31pm
 
Stewart wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:06pm:
Welcome to fractured scene of fringe politics.
caution discussion of socialist parties in australia
In simple terms Alternative is Trotskyist and Alliance is more inclined to Stalinism.

you have missed a third organization, Solidarity which is also Trotskyist. In the 1990s a schism emerged in the International Socialist Organisation(ISO). This is why Socialist Alternative is alternative, they are mainly located around Melbourne. Solidarity split away from ISO in the early 00s and what was left of ISO (And others organisation) later went on to form Socialist Alliance, a Stalinist organization they were aligned with the Democratic Socialist Party (now merged with Alliance) their publication is Green Left Weekly. In 2008 following their withdrawal from Socialist Alliance ISO joined Solidarity, Alternative was not invited to this merger.  Oh yeah there was another split from DSP, in 2008 known as the Revolutionary Socialist Party.

Confused yet?
So whats the difference
Alternative has been highly critical of most other organisations and of the Labor government, arguing that a Labor government is almost as bad as the Libs/Nats. It has been extremely critical of Alliance on virtually every policy they have. I would have to do some searching for specific examples. Of the organizations, Alternative place very little importance on straight electoral work. They have also been critical of Solidarity, there was a lot of thuggery between SA solidarity of the latter purportedly supporting the Gillard Governments then proposed East Timor Solution. Recently SA approached Solidarity about merging together, arguing that their policies were very similar as opposed to those published by Green Left Weekly. Solidarity gave them a very stiff Get stuffed.

Hope this helps

NB - I would like to remind the reader that S.A is Alternative and Not Alliance, sorry for any confusion.



Smiley  Thanks so much. I don't personally know anyone involved with either organisation so cheers for enlightening me! Seems the Far-Left in this country can't even cooperate amongst themselves let alone decide what "form" of Socialism they adhere to. What an absolute rabble these groups are. Here we are in 2011 Australia and there are still political groups who take inspiration from "Stalinism".  Cheesy (Face Palm)
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« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:41pm by Tony Bradshaw »  
 
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Tony Bradshaw
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Re: Socialthe opist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #18 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:48pm
 
Socialist Alliance has also worked with the NSW Greens during state election campaigns. NSW Upper house Greens member David Shoebridge recently gave a speech at the opening of the Green Left Weekly's new "Resistance Centre" in Ultimo. Is this really appropriate? Would Bob Brown want the Greens so close to these fringe groups?

Photos from the opening of the "Resistance Centre" can be seen on Facebook here. In attendance are David Shoebridge, Greens Marrickville Clr Cathy Peters amongst others:

Note the pro-Palestinian paraphernalia in abundance
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hawil
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #19 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:53pm
 
barnaby joe wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 3:59pm:
are they trots? trots are the worst


The Rotten Systems, and is there an Alterative?

The so called Civilizations since mankind came out of the cave, or maybe came down from the trees have hardly changed over thousands of years, because we are now as brutal to each other as they were in the stone ages; the only difference is, that thousands of years ago, men fought each other with sticks and stones, and now destructive weapons are used to the point that the planet on which we live could be completely destroyed in matters of minutes, if the potent weapons, designed by very clever people, put into the hands of not so clever, so called leaders, be they Kings, Dictators or just Politicians, and none of the latter display any scruples or courage to speak up against what should be spoken up against.

But in the so called Democracy, are the Politicians only to be blamed?

If a Politician speaks honestly, if that is possible, will he/she be re-elected at the next election; most likely not, and that is the weakness of a Democracy, the citizens in a Democracy cannot accept the truth, which may go against the voters interests, be it economically or otherwise.

How could Democracy be improved so that it becomes a better system of Government than all the other systems that preceded it?

Considering the previous systems, Be they Oligarchies, Royalties, Plutocracies  or Communism.

The first three are only for the benefit of the few, based on either birth or other means, while the last would be the best, yet it completely collapsed after less than a hundred years, but why did Communism collapse so quickly?

The Capitalist always harp on the idea of being the human nature, and greed will always come out on top, when it comes to benefit humanity.

For Communism to work, the human mind has to broaden enormously, because if people think that Communism is a system made in heaven, they are very wrong, because it is obvious that if nobody is prepared to put the effort he/she is capable of, and everybody has no desire to limit their consumption, the system cannot function.
But in any system, the main problem is, that there are always people trying to usurp the leading positions, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they are capable of being the leaders and are not just in the leading positions for their own benefit or boost their big ego.

As most of the aspiring leaders have the ability to fool the common people, by first crawling to them, and when they are in positions of power they will quickly turn around and often misuse the power vested in them.

The people in power also have the great ability of surrounding themselves with underlings who will lick the boots of their leaders, and empower the leader to overcome any attempt to challenge their leadership

Many male leaders are often also controlled by their wives or female partners and are rather weak in reality, but very cunning to outwit their opponents, but in the long run, the society with weak or unfair leaders always suffers.

In a Marriage, where a partner with less ability gains control through having a thicker skin, in the end both partners will not achieve their full potential, and this will also apply in every other Organization up to the leadership in Governments.

That does not mean that the more skillful partner in a marriage should debase his/her partner, but for the benefit of both and the community at large, fools should not be leaders, but use their skills and talents for the benefit of a family, a group or Government, and the so called Indians are just as valuable to society as are the Chiefs.

Never, never should the leaders in society be left in total position of power, but should  always be challenged  to explain and justify their actions.

Unfortunately many individuals which are prepared to challenge the leaders or the system are conveniently accused of “Rocking the Boat” or called “Whistleblowers” and many times they pay a high price for their actions.

Also the leaders of any society should not be put on a pedestal and idolized like super heroes, and when the people in power talk about serving the Community, they should really show their true colours and admit that they are not in those positions for their own ego and like to have the nose in the trough.

How many families become career politicians; now if to be a politician is such a hard and demanding task, a parent would hardly encourage their offspring to follow in their

footsteps.

One way how Democratic performance could be greatly improved would be is , instead of having the Senate and Legislative Councils, abolish them and set up Committees of interested citizens to perform the task of keeping a watch over the Governments, and they should not be paid, except being remunerated for any expenses in performing their tasks.

There could also be some risk that this committees set up to keep the “bastards honest” do not become in to the same mould of the Australian Democrats, which although now completely obliterated, are a huge burden on the taxpayers, as there are many quite young ex MP’s enjoying the benefits of a generous parliamentary pension, with all the attached perks.

In the capitalist system, much emphasis is placed on the value of capital for the benefit of society, but is capital really so important for the function of society
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Soren
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #20 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:41pm
 
Tony Bradshaw wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:00am:
http://www.greenleft.org.au/sites/default/files/imagecache/article-image/greens_...http://mickymouseamerica.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/boycott-apartheid-israel1.j...http://barenakedislam.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/bds-israel-apartheid-boycott-d...

Listen to Ben Fordham get stuck into Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon over her endorsement of the radical Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) policy against Israeli businesses and lashes her for supporting bigotted protesters outside Max Brenner chocolate shops. Bob Brown must be spitting chips everytime Rhiannon opens her mouth!





Letter to the Ed today:

Did she (Rhiannon) boycott any communist countries when they were committing some of the greatest atrocities of the 20th century? When the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia to crush the Prague Spring, did Rhiannon boycott the Soviets? No, she joined the Socialist Party of Australia, a pro-Soviet grouping that split from the Communist Party of Australia after the CPA abhorred the Soviet actions.

Did she boycott the Soviet Union when it was administering psychiatric abuse such as electro-shocks to its dissidents? No, she led a delegation to Moscow. She even made an appearance in Soviet Woman.

Not even in the dying days of the Soviet dictatorship did she protest about human rights abuses.


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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #21 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:44pm
 
Soren wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:41pm:
Tony Bradshaw wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:00am:
http://www.greenleft.org.au/sites/default/files/imagecache/article-image/greens_...http://mickymouseamerica.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/boycott-apartheid-israel1.j...http://barenakedislam.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/bds-israel-apartheid-boycott-d...

Listen to Ben Fordham get stuck into Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon over her endorsement of the radical Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) policy against Israeli businesses and lashes her for supporting bigotted protesters outside Max Brenner chocolate shops. Bob Brown must be spitting chips everytime Rhiannon opens her mouth!





Letter to the Ed today:

Did she (Rhiannon) boycott any communist countries when they were committing some of the greatest atrocities of the 20th century? When the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia to crush the Prague Spring, did Rhiannon boycott the Soviets? No, she joined the Socialist Party of Australia, a pro-Soviet grouping that split from the Communist Party of Australia after the CPA abhorred the Soviet actions.

Did she boycott the Soviet Union when it was administering psychiatric abuse such as electro-shocks to its dissidents? No, she led a delegation to Moscow. She even made an appearance in Soviet Woman.

Not even in the dying days of the Soviet dictatorship did she protest about human rights abuses.

One of the last and most persistent of the 'useful idiots' it seems.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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barnaby joe
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #22 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:51pm
 
was walking around australian national university's campus a few months ago

it was raining and i was the only one around since it was a break

i noticed that there was a heap of posters advertising this trotskyite meeting at the campus

they were next to these feminist rally meeting posters

i tore a bunch of them down

why are feminism and trotskyism so big on aussie campuses?
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Soren
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #23 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:52pm
 
It's time for a Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against the Greens for their association with and support for, blatant support for persons guilty of crimes and insults against intelligence.

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #24 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:57pm
 
barnaby joe wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:51pm:
was walking around australian national university's campus a few months ago

it was raining and i was the only one around since it was a break

You ever thought of writing? (maybe you do)...

You're a natural at unselfconscious humour Grin
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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Tony Bradshaw
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #25 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:00pm
 
Soren wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:52pm:
It's time for a Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against the Greens for their association with and support for, blatant support for persons guilty of crimes and insults against intelligence.



The Greens boast that they don't accept corporate donations. I think it would be more accurate to say that corporations don't donate to the Greens!
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barnaby joe
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #26 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:00pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:57pm:
barnaby joe wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:51pm:
was walking around australian national university's campus a few months ago

it was raining and i was the only one around since it was a break

You ever thought of writing? (maybe you do)...

You're a natural at unselfconscious humour Grin


i wanted to truly create an illustration of the solitude of the scene
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barnaby joe
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #27 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:02pm
 
which itself was representational of a lone man's struggle against leftist cultural subversion Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

enacted

out

in

my

life
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #28 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:04pm
 
barnaby joe wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:00pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:57pm:
barnaby joe wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:51pm:
was walking around australian national university's campus a few months ago

it was raining and i was the only one around since it was a break

You ever thought of writing? (maybe you do)...

You're a natural at unselfconscious humour Grin


i wanted to truly create an illustration of the solitude of the scene

Well, you did better than that... You also gave it an air of poignancy and humour.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance
Reply #29 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:05pm
 
barnaby joe wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:02pm:
which itself was representational of a lone man's struggle against leftist cultural subversion Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

enacted

out

in

my

life

Keep going... You're on a roll...  Grin

Let us know when your first novel is about to hit the stands.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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