Australian Politics Forum - Loving children to death

Maqqa

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #15 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:19pm

Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

I would not be surprised the parents are also large mammals as well

Dieticians are great - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it stop eating

So in this case - education is useless if they won't take action

If the 12 years old is 102kg - I find that to be child abuse.

Parents seems to have no will power to say NO to their own food intact and no will power to say no to their children

So how do you protect the children?

and the fact that they were supervised and monitored Maqqa ?
don;t you think that is a tinsy bit of a stuff up?

They are monitored but I doubt there are any restrictions or strict supervision

It gets down to they can't control themselves

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Deborahmac09

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #16 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:25pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

cods wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:13pm:

you would have to get the parents fixed first.. sounds like they are the dregs.. but never the less..we have been through the stolen generation.. isnt this more of the same..

if the specialists cant get the parents to change then their is something wrong with how they are approaching them..

if thyey are as obese as you say.. then it wouldnt be hard to get someone in the house doing all the meals and shopping..it wouldnt be anywhere near as expensive as putting these kids into foster homes..

maybe a dose of hypnosis..or frontal lobotomy...

Don't forget they can snack

So unless you control their money - they will buy heaps of snacks which compound the issue

So does the government quarantine their income? We tried that with the Aborigines and look at the outrage

actually maqqa, what happened with the aboriginals was a bit more involved than that. It is not as clear cut as you are making it out to be.
But that is another topic.

seems the invervention for these people was a failure. If they were being watched, then why did they allow them to carry on. That is not monotoring and especially supervising.

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Maqqa

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #17 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:29pm

Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:25pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

cods wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:13pm:

you would have to get the parents fixed first.. sounds like they are the dregs.. but never the less..we have been through the stolen generation.. isnt this more of the same..

if the specialists cant get the parents to change then their is something wrong with how they are approaching them..

if thyey are as obese as you say.. then it wouldnt be hard to get someone in the house doing all the meals and shopping..it wouldnt be anywhere near as expensive as putting these kids into foster homes..

maybe a dose of hypnosis..or frontal lobotomy...

Don't forget they can snack

So unless you control their money - they will buy heaps of snacks which compound the issue

So does the government quarantine their income? We tried that with the Aborigines and look at the outrage

actually maqqa, what happened with the aboriginals was a bit more involved than that. It is not as clear cut as you are making it out to be.
But that is another topic.

seems the invervention for these people was a failure. If they were being watched, then why did they allow them to carry on. That is not monotoring and especially supervising.

You can't really stop them from eating other than to restrict what's in the pantry

Even then you need the basics like flour, sugar and salt - even that you can slam down alot of calories by making bread

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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longweekend58

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #18 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:30pm

and for the precious few with the limited IQ that enables them to support this, what do you say when the standard for removing children is no more than being 'overweight' but say 20% of the norm? And why stop there? why no remove kids from families that dont enforce good sleeping hours or whos grades are low? WHERE DOES IT STOP??

and thats the problem. it doesnt stop. it always exapnds. do we really want to live in a society that presumes to take our kids for a failure to live up to what is an arbitrary standard?

that said... clearly the parents have no idea of dieting. met and potatoes and pasta are very nice but hardly the stuff of diets!

and maqqa... you should be ashamed of yourself supporting this crap. when they come for your kids or your grandkids for teaching them things at home that the state doesnt approve of remember this. The nazi concentration camps happened because no one stood up and said it was wrong 10 years before when the discrimination began.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Deborahmac09 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1619	Re: Loving children to death Reply #19 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:32pm you do agree though, longie that something needs to be done.?
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longweekend58

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #20 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:39pm

Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:32pm:

you do agree though, longie that something needs to be done.?

of course. but taking the kids - FOR LIFE - isnt a solution nor should it ever be.

yeah they're fat kids, but apparently very loved kids. so let's put them in the foster system where love is rare, abuse is common and the weight can be beaten off.

wonderful.

But what do you think of the PRINCIPLE of the state taking children awy from parents FOR LIFE (want to emphasises that) over something like weight? you dont see a human rights violation issue somewhere there?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Equitist

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #21 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:22pm

Obviously, we don't have a full picture of this family's history - but it seems a fairly safe bet that a genetic predisposition to severe obesity is at the core of the problem!

There is no mention in the article that suggests the family has been receiving proper medical testing and attention - just the draconian provision of imposed dietetics!

There are a range of medical conditions that predispose people to extreme obesity - and many of those are genetic in origin...

Some people simply do not have a biological cut-off switch to tell them that they have consumed sufficient food and some have a mechanism which creates a constant sense of hunger - and this is compounded by severe withdrawal symptoms...

There was a program on the ABC very recently, in which a medical expert on obesity indicated that genetics predetermines about 60% of a person's BMI - and that this relates back to evolutionary socio-economic constructs whereby survival of physical workers depended upon the capacity to store fat...

Apparently, some people simply cannot taste fat - but they crave food!

Either way, it seems absurd that the authorities have intervened in the ways they have - and that even more that they may not have assisted the family to access those things that would have led to better overall outcomes...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Maqqa

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #22 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:22pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:30pm:

and for the precious few with the limited IQ that enables them to support this, what do you say when the standard for removing children is no more than being 'overweight' but say 20% of the norm? And why stop there? why no remove kids from families that dont enforce good sleeping hours or whos grades are low? WHERE DOES IT STOP??

and thats the problem. it doesnt stop. it always exapnds. do we really want to live in a society that presumes to take our kids for a failure to live up to what is an arbitrary standard?

that said... clearly the parents have no idea of dieting. met and potatoes and pasta are very nice but hardly the stuff of diets!

and maqqa... you should be ashamed of yourself supporting this crap. when they come for your kids or your grandkids for teaching them things at home that the state doesnt approve of remember this. The nazi concentration camps happened because no one stood up and said it was wrong 10 years before when the discrimination began.

longie

Never said I support it either way

I actually stated this to cods earlier in the thread - it's a catch 22

Its a real dilemma and where do you stop with it in the name of "protecting the children"

I also mentioned that this is in the Political section because the other point I want to make is legislation is created to stop the minority but impacts greatly on the majority who do the right thing.

It's sad that these parent can't control themselves and passing it onto the next generation

We can extend this argument to ferals breeding ferals ie do we allow 2 feral redneck parents breed to produce more feral children to go onto the unemployed queue?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #23 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:23pm

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:22pm:

Obviously, we don't have a full picture of this family's history - but it seems a fairly safe bet that a genetic predisposition to severe obesity is at the core of the problem!

There is no mention in the article that suggests the family has been receiving proper medical testing and attention - just the draconian provision of imposed dietetics!

There are a range of medical conditions that predispose people to extreme obesity - and many of those are genetic in origin...

Some people simply do not have a biological cut-off switch to tell them that they have consumed sufficient food and some have a mechanism which creates a constant sense of hunger - and this is compounded by severe withdrawal symptoms...

There was a program on the ABC very recently, in which a medical expert on obesity indicated that genetics predetermines about 60% of a person's BMI - and that this relates back to evolutionary socio-economic constructs whereby survival of physical workers depended upon the capacity to store fat...

Apparently, some people simply cannot taste fat - but they crave food!

Either way, it seems absurd that the authorities have intervened in the ways they have - and that even more that they may not have assisted the family to access those things that would have led to better overall outcomes...

Never occurred to you that it could simply be gluttony?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Equitist

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #24 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:25pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:23pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:22pm:

Obviously, we don't have a full picture of this family's history - but it seems a fairly safe bet that a genetic predisposition to severe obesity is at the core of the problem!

There is no mention in the article that suggests the family has been receiving proper medical testing and attention - just the draconian provision of imposed dietetics!

There are a range of medical conditions that predispose people to extreme obesity - and many of those are genetic in origin...

Some people simply do not have a biological cut-off switch to tell them that they have consumed sufficient food and some have a mechanism which creates a constant sense of hunger - and this is compounded by severe withdrawal symptoms...

There was a program on the ABC very recently, in which a medical expert on obesity indicated that genetics predetermines about 60% of a person's BMI - and that this relates back to evolutionary socio-economic constructs whereby survival of physical workers depended upon the capacity to store fat...

Apparently, some people simply cannot taste fat - but they crave food!

Either way, it seems absurd that the authorities have intervened in the ways they have - and that even more that they may not have assisted the family to access those things that would have led to better overall outcomes...

Never occurred to you that it could simply be gluttony?

Never occurred to you that there is actually a so-called 'gluttony gene'!?

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #25 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:28pm

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:25pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:23pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:22pm:

Obviously, we don't have a full picture of this family's history - but it seems a fairly safe bet that a genetic predisposition to severe obesity is at the core of the problem!

There is no mention in the article that suggests the family has been receiving proper medical testing and attention - just the draconian provision of imposed dietetics!

There are a range of medical conditions that predispose people to extreme obesity - and many of those are genetic in origin...

Some people simply do not have a biological cut-off switch to tell them that they have consumed sufficient food and some have a mechanism which creates a constant sense of hunger - and this is compounded by severe withdrawal symptoms...

There was a program on the ABC very recently, in which a medical expert on obesity indicated that genetics predetermines about 60% of a person's BMI - and that this relates back to evolutionary socio-economic constructs whereby survival of physical workers depended upon the capacity to store fat...

Apparently, some people simply cannot taste fat - but they crave food!

Either way, it seems absurd that the authorities have intervened in the ways they have - and that even more that they may not have assisted the family to access those things that would have led to better overall outcomes...

Never occurred to you that it could simply be gluttony?

Never occurred to you that there is actually a so-called 'gluttony gene'!?

and it gets down to personal responsibility

it's very simple - adults require about 2500 calories a day for normal body function. Eat anymore and you'll gain weight. Eat less than this you'll lose weight

1kg = 7000 calories

.

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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longweekend58

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #26 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 10:14pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:28pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:25pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:23pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 9:22pm:

Obviously, we don't have a full picture of this family's history - but it seems a fairly safe bet that a genetic predisposition to severe obesity is at the core of the problem!

There is no mention in the article that suggests the family has been receiving proper medical testing and attention - just the draconian provision of imposed dietetics!

There are a range of medical conditions that predispose people to extreme obesity - and many of those are genetic in origin...

Some people simply do not have a biological cut-off switch to tell them that they have consumed sufficient food and some have a mechanism which creates a constant sense of hunger - and this is compounded by severe withdrawal symptoms...

There was a program on the ABC very recently, in which a medical expert on obesity indicated that genetics predetermines about 60% of a person's BMI - and that this relates back to evolutionary socio-economic constructs whereby survival of physical workers depended upon the capacity to store fat...

Apparently, some people simply cannot taste fat - but they crave food!

Either way, it seems absurd that the authorities have intervened in the ways they have - and that even more that they may not have assisted the family to access those things that would have led to better overall outcomes...

Never occurred to you that it could simply be gluttony?

Never occurred to you that there is actually a so-called 'gluttony gene'!?

and it gets down to personal responsibility

it's very simple - adults require about 2500 calories a day for normal body function. Eat anymore and you'll gain weight. Eat less than this you'll lose weight

1kg = 7000 calories

.

none of which has anything to do with the point of the thread. there is a PRINCIPLE involved here. 'principle' seems to be the hardest topic to ever discuss. It makes you wonder if many people on here have the foggiest idea what a principle is!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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astro_surf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2981	Re: Loving children to death Reply #27 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 10:20pm Quote: Loving children to death Today at 6:52pm Is this a thread about Abbott's Roman Catholic background???
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #28 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 10:28pm

cods wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:09pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:05pm:

I would not be surprised the parents are also large mammals as well

Dieticians are great - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it stop eating

So in this case - education is useless if they won't take action

If the 12 years old is 102kg - I find that to be child abuse.

Parents seems to have no will power to say NO to their own food intact and no will power to say no to their children

So how do you protect the children?

so what do you call taking kids away form loving parents???

The parents may be 'loving' but they're potentially killing the kids....

A 12 year old who weighs 102kg???........A grown man, 178cm (5 foot 8 inch) man should only weigh 78 kgs...

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Deborahmac09

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Re: Loving children to death
Reply #29 - Sep 5^th, 2011 at 11:53pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:39pm:

Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2011 at 8:32pm:

you do agree though, longie that something needs to be done.?

of course. but taking the kids - FOR LIFE - isnt a solution nor should it ever be.

yeah they're fat kids, but apparently very loved kids. so let's put them in the foster system where love is rare, abuse is common and the weight can be beaten off.

wonderful.

But what do you think of the PRINCIPLE of the state taking children awy from parents FOR LIFE (want to emphasises that) over something like weight? you dont see a human rights violation issue somewhere there?

Could not agree more.
Education must be an important step.

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