Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 10:56am:




Then i will tell ya something about Aisha.

She was one, 'wise beyond her years', lil cookie.





It is recorded within ISLAMIC texts that even Aisha Mohammed's 9 year old child bride recognised how Allah's revelations always seemed to coincide with Mohammed's immediate, worldly, desires...

Narrated Aisha:


hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #006.060.311


Even Aisha knew that Mohammed was a fraud.

....or alternatively, that it was Mohammed, who was Allah's god.
....seeing as Allah seemed to be Mohammed's most servile servant.

That's not what is written in the koran.

Why did her hair fall out ?

Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:08pm:


As I stated earlier, she herself, said that she had already reached puberty when the marriage was consumated.

As I said earlier it has been common throughout history for women to marry upon reaching puberty.

Believe it or not but many females reach puberty as early as nine, and this historically would have made them considered an adult.



It used to be quite common until fairly recently amongst Christians and Jews to marry females off as young as eight.

In 1180, the Christian King Louis VII married his daughter Agnes to the Christian Byzantine Emperor when she was 8 years-old!

Child brides, whether Byzantines or foreign princesses, were the norm rather than the exception, especially from the late twelfth century.

http://www.roman-emperors.org/aggiefran.htm




Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:08pm:


Prophet Muhammed was quite physically fit at that stage. In the years following the marriage he fought in many battles, engaging in fierce hand-to-hand combat in the heat of the Arabian desert. Aishah, herself, described the prophet as having "the strength of 20 men."

It is no secret that women find power and fame attractive, and the prophet had women come up and propose themselves for marriage to him whilst he was in his fifties. He was also known as a righteous and honest man, and a prophet of God.

perhaps you could answer these questions:

1-     If the marriage was so wrong, then why didn’t Aisha’s mother object to the marriage? Instead she happily gave Aisha for marriage, and prepared her for the marriage

2-     Why did the women who were present with Aisha when she was about to be given to the prophet for marriage wished her luck and were happy for her. If the marriage was wrong, the women present would have been sad, and they would not have been happy for Aisha, rather what we see is that they were happy for Aisha and had no problems with this marriage whatsoever.

3-     Are we supposed to assume that Abu Bakr, and Aisha’s mother, and the women present with Aisha are all pedophiles and child molesters? Indeed such a conclusion with be very ignorant, and arrogant.

4-    Why didn’t any of the prophet’s enemies use this against the prophet Muhammad? If the marriage was so wrong, then you would expect to find his enemies to be the first ones to start using this against him, instead what we find is that his enemies NEVER EVEN ONCE brought this marriage up in a negative way against him.


5-    Why is there not a SINGLE hadith from Aisha showing her being displeased of the marriage? Why is there not one hadith from Aisha showing her to be like a victim, instead when you look at Aisha you find no symptoms of a victim. She became a great leader for Islam, a great scholar for Islam who would teach about Islam to many men. Does this seem to be the symptoms of someone who has been abused?

6-If Aisha was indeed a victim and so on, then why did she love the prophet Muhammad so much, and would sometimes get jelous around him because she loved him so much, does this sound like someone who is a victim?

Seeing as the topic of pedophilia has been brought up let look to the Bible to see what it says

Numbers 31:17-18

17 And now slay every male among the little ones, and slay every woman that hath known man by lying with him,

18 but all the female children that have not known lying with a man, keep alive for yourselves.




hmmmm sounds a bit sus, better get the rabbis to clear up this pedophile issue for us with a Talmudic explanation. For they are  "sages of blessed memory... whose words are the natural sounds of Judaism" [1]:

Remember the Talmud is a holy book for Jews, a book second only to the Bible in religious importance:




Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And one can be liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman....If she was married to a priest, she may eat food in the status of priestly rations. If one of those who are unfit for marriage with her had intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood.[M.Nid. 5:4].
Sanhedrin 7/55B [2]



R. Nahman bar Isaac said. "They made the decree that a gentile child should be deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15], so that an Israelite child should not hang around with him and commit pederasty [as he does]."

For said R. Zira, "I had much anguish with R. Assi, and R. Assi with R. Yohanan, and R. Yohanan with R. Yannai, and R. Yannai with R. Nathan b. Amram, and R. Nathan b. Amram with Rabbi [on this matter]: 'From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]'? And he said to me, 'On the day on which he is born.' But when I came to R. Hiyya, he said to me, 'From the age of nine years and one day.' And when I came and laid the matter before Rabbi, he said to me, 'Discard my reply and adopt that of R. Hiyya, who declared, "From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]? From the age of nine years and one day."'

[37A] Since he is then suitable for having sexual relations, he also is deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [of Lev.15]."

Said Rabina, "Therefore a gentile girl who is three years and one day old, since she is then suitable to have sexual relations, also imparts uncleanness of the flux variety."
That is self-evident!
Abodah Zarah 36B-37A[3]



The basis for these rulings is the following Mishnaic passage of Tractate Niddah (filth):

A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."
 
And if a levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her...

If she is younger than that age (three years-old), intercourse with her is like putting a finger in the eye.
(Mishnah Niddah 5:4) [4]



"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).
[This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable  Rabbi Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a converted girl who became a convert in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood." [5]



According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations." [6]



[1] J. Neusner, (trans) The Talmud of Babylonia, vol.XXI.A-D, Tractate Bava Mesia, Atlanta: Scholars Press 1990, p.ix-x.

[2] J. Neusner, (trans) The Talmud of Babylonia, vol.XXIII.B, Tractate Sanhedrin 1984, 150. See also vol.XIX.A, Tractate Qiddushin 10a-b, 1992, 33. "Menstruating" here of course refers to the ritual "flux uncleanness" described in Lev.15.

[3] J. Neusner, The Talmud of Babylonia. A complete outline, Part IV. The Division of Holy Things. B. Number 37. 1995, 704.

[4] J. Neusner, The Way of Torah. An Introduction to Judaism, Fifth Edition, Belmont: Wadsworth 1993, p.41.

[5 J Neusner, The Talmud: Introduction and reader, Atlanta: Scholars Press 1995, p.7.

[6] J. Neusner, The Talmud of Babylonia. A complete outline, Part IV. The Division of Holy Things. B. Number 37. 1995, 704.

[5] K G Kuhn, Der tannaitische Midrasch Sifre zu Numeri (German), Stuttgart: Kohlhammer, 1959, §157, 652f.

[6] K G Kuhn, Der tannaitische Midrasch Sifre zu Numeri (German), Stuttgart: Kohlhammer, 1959, §157, footnote 86, 653.
   


According to the Bible and Talmud, don't have sex with a 2 year-old girl because that would be sick - but anything older is fine.

Maybe a 9 year-old is considered "over the hill" by people who take the Bible and talmud seriously.