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Just 64% of BER spent on buildings (Read 1606 times)
Maqqa
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Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Sep 24th, 2011 at 8:36am
 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/just-64pc-of-ber...

LESS than two-thirds of the $3.4 billion spent on the Building the Education Revolution school building stimulus scheme in NSW was actually spent constructing buildings.

Just 64 per cent of the BER funds allocated to NSW public schools went towards building costs. The remainder was spent on "agency and management fees", "unique project costs" and "external works and services".

By comparison, in NSW independent schools, 90 per cent of BER funding went towards construction costs, while the figure was 88 per cent for Catholic schools in the state.

In other states, construction costs ranged from 74 per cent to 91 per cent of all spending on BER projects in public schools.

The scale of the waste under the BER has again come into focus after construction giant Hansen Yuncken, which was responsible for project blowouts under the scheme worth millions of dollars, received an industry award last week for project management for its handling of the BER.

Hansen Yuncken and Engineers Australia, which presented the award, have refused to comment on the award.

In Victorian public schools, 74 per cent of BER spending went towards construction costs, compared with 90 per cent for both Catholic and independent schools in the state.

Victorian and NSW public schools, which accounted for 37 per cent of the entire program, were host to the largest cost blowouts under the stimulus program.


The $14 million taskforce into the BER, headed by former investment banker Brad Orgill, has said much of the costs blowouts in NSW resulted from high fees paid to managing contractors.

"The taskforce view is that the very high total project costs for (the) NSW government reflects in part the relatively high fees paid to managing contractors (20-24 per cent)," it said.

Overdue repairs and infrastructure upgrades added to the vastly inflated cost of buildings delivered to NSW and Victorian public schools, but that figure has not been broken down by the taskforce. Mr Orgill was unavailable for comment yesterday.

The vast differences in building prices paid by government and non-government schools was highlighted by the inquiry's final report, which found NSW government schools had paid on average $3509 per square metre for halls delivered under the program, compared with NSW independent schools, which had paid on average just $1988/sq m.

NSW public schools were charged $3285/sq m for classrooms while NSW Catholic schools paid on average just $2204/sq m.

The former NSW Labor government was criticised over its centralised delivery and poor communication with principals.

The NSW and Victorian governments had not been well-enough skilled to negotiate that use of managing contractors, the taskforce has said.

In the wake of the BER blowouts, NSW Education Minister Adrian Piccoli said last month the government would start a process of consultation on "empowering local public schools".
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cods
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #1 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 8:45am
 
honestly its a given anything run by a govt will always cost more and provide less..and with Labor we can almost double it..

I personally would like a long list of waste that goes on with all govts... we are entitled to know what happens to our money..

if we dont demand better accountability then we will never get it.. those in charge dont have to answer to anyone do they?

we in a way are shareholders.. imagine shareholders putting up with this news from a private business.
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Maqqa
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #2 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 8:48am
 
cods wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 8:45am:
honestly its a given anything run by a govt will always cost more and provide less..and with Labor we can almost double it..

I personally would like a long list of waste that goes on with all govts... we are entitled to know what happens to our money..

if we dont demand better accountability then we will never get it.. those in charge dont have to answer to anyone do they?

we in a way are shareholders.. imagine shareholders putting up with this news from a private business.


I came back from South-East Asian 3 weeks ago and the figures from the Australian BER is very similar ie they take 40% in management fees as well and this is in a corrupt system so what does that say about how Labor managed this system
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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
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cods
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #3 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 8:50am
 
Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 8:48am:
cods wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 8:45am:
honestly its a given anything run by a govt will always cost more and provide less..and with Labor we can almost double it..

I personally would like a long list of waste that goes on with all govts... we are entitled to know what happens to our money..

if we dont demand better accountability then we will never get it.. those in charge dont have to answer to anyone do they?

we in a way are shareholders.. imagine shareholders putting up with this news from a private business.


I came back from South-East Asian 3 weeks ago and the figures from the Australian BER is very similar ie they take 40% in management fees as well and this is in a corrupt system so what does that say about how Labor managed this system




in a word CORRUPT!

of course one could say incompetent...but the left thinks thats harsh.
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culldav
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #4 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 9:16am
 
I have been saying for some time that they must be putting something in the water to dumb-down the IQ’s of Australians, because this kind of incompetence from a Government in any other country simply wouldn’t be tolerated by the population, and it makes me wonder why ‘Aussies’ are just sitting back accepting this garbage leadership.

Its time these scum-bag politicians were held accountable for every cent they spend. 

Imagine if these idiots like Gillard and her clown brigade could squander the same amount of money in a private sector job and then continue wasting money as an employee without consequences.

That’s right folks, the business would go bust, and that’s what’s happening to the country all the time and why we the people are always broke and taxed 30% of our income.

We are constantly putting the same idiots into power who don’t know what they are doing, and then we expect change.  Some people who vote for the major political parties like Labor & Liberal think that by these parasites being in opposition for a 3 year period is punishment enough and they have learnt their lesson - the thing is, this political parties and Politicians “will never” learn their lessons, because they are addicted to abusing their power and control that the stupid people gave away to them for nothing…

The people need to start taking power away from the Governments, not giving them more.
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longweekend58
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #5 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 9:49am
 
36% spent on non-building?? that is a disgrace! the trouble witht he report on BER which said they did a good job was that the standards they employed were so low it was easy to meet them.

what a disgrace!
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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culldav
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #6 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 10:01am
 
Everyone understood to ideas behind the Labor schemes, and thought they were good ideas, but the planning and Management would have been better implemented by an 8 year at a  “Lemonade” stand than a whole contingent of Labor representatives.

I have never seen this kind of incompetent bungling in my life in business.
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Maqqa
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #7 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:15pm
 
culldav wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 10:01am:
Everyone understood to ideas behind the Labor schemes, and thought they were good ideas, but the planning and Management would have been better implemented by an 8 year at a  “Lemonade” stand than a whole contingent of Labor representatives.

I have never seen this kind of incompetent bungling in my life in business.



That's the main issue between the left and right

The left are dreamers and the right are realists - you need a balance

Dreamers aren't very good at operational issues

Whereas the right are so realists that they at times become to regimental

This is why a centre-right government will make Australia more prosperous than a centre-left

And a centre-left government is preferred over extreme left government

Howard/Costello would always be better on balance than Hawke/Keating

But Hawke/Keating will always be better than Rudd/Gillard

What's worse is the Rudd/Gillard team was further left driven by the Greens doctrines
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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #8 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:12pm
 
Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:15pm:
culldav wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 10:01am:
Everyone understood to ideas behind the Labor schemes, and thought they were good ideas, but the planning and Management would have been better implemented by an 8 year at a  “Lemonade” stand than a whole contingent of Labor representatives.

I have never seen this kind of incompetent bungling in my life in business.



That's the main issue between the left and right

The left are dreamers and the right are realists - you need a balance

Dreamers aren't very good at operational issues

Whereas the right are so realists that they at times become to regimental

This is why a centre-right government will make Australia more prosperous than a centre-left

And a centre-left government is preferred over extreme left government

Howard/Costello would always be better on balance than Hawke/Keating

But Hawke/Keating will always be better than Rudd/Gillard

What's worse is the Rudd/Gillard team was further left driven by the Greens doctrines


Without Hawke/Keating, Howard/Costello would not have had the economy they did.
Howard had done all he was going to do with the Campbell report, the stuff left may(well did) require guts, and would cost votes.
I'll not try and defend NSW Labor, who would, but stop trying to pass off the benifits of Keatings guts, vision and desire to see Australia succeed as Howards/Costello's work. Angry
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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stryder
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #9 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:19pm
 
Quote:
Howard had done all he was going to do with the Campbell report, the stuff left may(well did) require guts, and would cost votes.
I'll not try and defend NSW Labor, who would, but stop trying to pass off the benifits of Keatings guts, vision and desire to see Australia succeed as Howards/Costello's work.
By dsmithy


In 1979, Treasurer Howard established a committee of inquiry, the Campbell Committee, to investigate these matters, and it was clear from the composition of the Committee that it was likely that it would favour a move to a less regulated financial system. In the event, it did, when it reported 2-1/2 years later. And the implementation of its recommendations, at first under the Fraser government and later, on a bigger scale, under the Hawke government, transformed the Australian financial system and much of the economy as well. The reform process did not wait until the Committee's report had been fully digested and a number of changes were implemented between 1979 and 1982. One was the removal of all interest rate ceilings on bank deposits, but the most important change was the introduction of the tender system for the sale of Treasury notes in 1979, and Treasury bonds in 1982. This changed the method of selling government securities was a major reform, which has not been accorded the recognition it deserves It was second only in importance to the float of the Australian dollar in 1983..

BOYER LECTURES, Lecture 3, REFORM AND DEREGULATION, Ian McFarlane, former reserve bank governor
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« Last Edit: Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:27pm by stryder »  
 
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Maqqa
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14% - that low?!

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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #10 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:39pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:12pm:
Without Hawke/Keating, Howard/Costello would not have had the economy they did.
Howard had done all he was going to do with the Campbell report, the stuff left may(well did) require guts, and would cost votes.
I'll not try and defend NSW Labor, who would, but stop trying to pass off the benifits of Keatings guts, vision and desire to see Australia succeed as Howards/Costello's work. Angry



Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #11 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 2:38pm
 
stryder wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:19pm:
Quote:
Howard had done all he was going to do with the Campbell report, the stuff left may(well did) require guts, and would cost votes.
I'll not try and defend NSW Labor, who would, but stop trying to pass off the benifits of Keatings guts, vision and desire to see Australia succeed as Howards/Costello's work.
By dsmithy


In 1979, Treasurer Howard established a committee of inquiry, the Campbell Committee, to investigate these matters, and it was clear from the composition of the Committee that it was likely that it would favour a move to a less regulated financial system. In the event, it did, when it reported 2-1/2 years later. And the implementation of its recommendations, at first under the Fraser government and later,
on a bigger scale, under the Hawke government, transformed the Australian financial system and much of the economy as well.
The reform process did not wait until the Committee's report had been fully digested and a number of changes were implemented between 1979 and 1982. One was the removal of all interest rate ceilings on bank deposits, but the most important change was the introduction of the tender system for the sale of Treasury notes in 1979, and Treasury bonds in 1982. This changed the method of selling government securities was a major reform, which has not been accorded the recognition it deserves It was second only in importance to the float of the Australian dollar in 1983..

BOYER LECTURES, Lecture 3, REFORM AND DEREGULATION, Ian McFarlane, former reserve bank governor


Like I said, Howard did stuff and fidling with treasurey bonds whilst an inportant thing is still not a difficult reform and certainly not a vote loser with average joe.
Abolishion of tarrifs, pegging wages to productiveity, deregulation,floating the dollar, these are the tough vote loseing but necessary reforms Howard baulked at and Keating took the hits for.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
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nairbe
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #12 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 3:05pm
 
OH yes government incompetence in financial matters is of great concern so we remember the way the government ripped off mum's and 'dad's on the telstra vote and how about the national gold reserve that was sold for what was it $250 an ounce. poo imagine what that would be worth to us now.

36% seems a lot but where did that go, let's see. Architect, draftsman, BCA consultant, Fire protection consultant, engineering certification, OH&S review, Quantity surveyor, estimator, tendering process, project management fee, department of commerce management fee, independent certifier and then probably a couple of other specialists such as the design consultants that i have missed, oh and any school that is old has old buildings or is in a heritage precinct will need a heritage consultant. Now despite the idea that maqqa has, that you just slap some crap up cheap as you can because it is only our schools and our kids and government should do it at bargin discout prices, the Department has a responsibility to get it right for the longer term, these buildings need to be serviceable for 40 years then they need to be able to renovate them for further service.

Yes i agree 36% is a bit much but not miles too much and under the circumstances of the project probably an acceptable factor. maqqa always amazes me with how he infers his understanding but hasn't a clue. Building is very complex outside of domestic housing and schools carry special significance because they are full of children. Schools are a Class 9B building and carry specific requirements when design is done for structure, fire ratings and materials, these also add to cost. The NSW department also set standards on materials and you must be an accredited tenderer before you can even place a tender to get a job. This requires companies to go to great lengths to gain this status but assures standards in child safety and finnish. Materials are not the cheap rubbish used in you current McMansions that by the way are appalling rubbish.  Somehow the right wing nuts just miss that when they blindly go attacking. This government does not need any extra help to look hopeless, but this type of rubbish is what erodes the quality of debate and leads me to believe that the electorate are as thick as the bricks of their houses.
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buzzanddidj
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #13 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 3:18pm
 
Quote:
Just 64 per cent of the BER funds allocated to NSW public schools went towards building costs. The remainder was spent on "agency and management fees", "unique project costs" and "external works and services".

By comparison, in NSW independent schools, 90 per cent of BER funding went towards construction costs, while the figure was 88 per cent for Catholic schools in the state.

In other states, construction costs ranged from 74 per cent to 91 per cent of all spending on BER projects in public schools.







And that is the way of ALL Federal, state and local government building projects WITH or WITHOUT the Building Education Revolution and GFC stimulus

The way it has ALWAYS been - and the way it will always BE



MUCH of it is money "on paper" - with
one government department "billing" another
for its contributions over the life of the project




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Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


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longweekend58
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Re: Just 64% of BER spent on buildings
Reply #14 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 3:32pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:12pm:
Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:15pm:
culldav wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 10:01am:
Everyone understood to ideas behind the Labor schemes, and thought they were good ideas, but the planning and Management would have been better implemented by an 8 year at a  “Lemonade” stand than a whole contingent of Labor representatives.

I have never seen this kind of incompetent bungling in my life in business.



That's the main issue between the left and right

The left are dreamers and the right are realists - you need a balance

Dreamers aren't very good at operational issues

Whereas the right are so realists that they at times become to regimental

This is why a centre-right government will make Australia more prosperous than a centre-left

And a centre-left government is preferred over extreme left government

Howard/Costello would always be better on balance than Hawke/Keating

But Hawke/Keating will always be better than Rudd/Gillard

What's worse is the Rudd/Gillard team was further left driven by the Greens doctrines


Without Hawke/Keating, Howard/Costello would not have had the economy they did.
Howard had done all he was going to do with the Campbell report, the stuff left may(well did) require guts, and would cost votes.
I'll not try and defend NSW Labor, who would, but stop trying to pass off the benifits of Keatings guts, vision and desire to see Australia succeed as Howards/Costello's work. Angry


it wasnt just keating. that is as myopic as saying it was all howard. our economic strength is testament to the efforts of both keating and costello. that is a far more non-partisan and accurate view.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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