Australian Politics Forum - Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?

skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ? Reply #15 - Sep 24^th, 2011 at 1:54pm Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.
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stryder

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #16 - Sep 24^th, 2011 at 2:01pm

Quote:

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

by Skippy

I had said that the independents would jump ship for another labor leader, not abbott, I know the independents wont support Abbott and the liberals, but Im saying that Gilliard has been doing so badly in the opinion polls that she is clearly a poisonous and unelectable figure and do the independents care about seeing abbott being taken on by labor, because they cant do it with Gilliard, so could they look past gilliard to Crean, smith or even Rudd to turn around labors most extreme polling misfortunes

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matty

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #17 - Sep 24^th, 2011 at 2:22pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:38pm:

matty wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:16pm:

matty wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:15pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:08pm:

stryder wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 11:59am:

Quote:

No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.

by Matty

Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013

I think 1 will survive

Windsor probably survive the carnage

You think that Windsor will still retain his seat, Maqqa? Huh

ALRIGHT

my bad Roll Eyes

No, it's cool, just wondering why you thought that?

He seems to be more likeable than the others. Generally if you have that appeal it's difficult to dislodge

I actually think that Wilkie is the most likeable. Yes, he went with Labor, but he had no other choice, really. Although I don't support his pokie reform BS. IMO, Windsor will be wiped out by whoever the Nationals candidate is.

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BILL SHORTEN WILL NEVER BE PM!!!!

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skippy.

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #18 - Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:04pm

stryder wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 2:01pm:

Quote:

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

by Skippy

I had said that the independents would jump ship for another labor leader, not abbott, I know the independents wont support Abbott and the liberals, but Im saying that Gilliard has been doing so badly in the opinion polls that she is clearly a poisonous and unelectable figure and do the independents care about seeing abbott being taken on by labor, because they cant do it with Gilliard, so could they look past gilliard to Crean, smith or even Rudd to turn around labors most extreme polling misfortunes

Oh sorry stryder, i miss read your post.
well yes I think they are certainties to look past Gillard, But to who?
My spin on it is
Rudd -the preferred leader by the public by a mile, would poll better than Gillard and Abbott and if Labor are going to dump Gillard the person most likely to pull off a win .
Smith- My preferred option, but I doubt he can turn things around, they should have elected Smith as leader four years ago.
Crean, in my opinion is the best bet because he is a lot like Abbott in that he wont be bullied like Gillard is, he would attract the old fashioned Labor voters back to the fold,he is also at the end of his career so has nothing to lose, and could well pull off the upset of the century by playing Abbott at his own game.
All three would get a lift in the polls, and as I said I believe Crean could pull off an upset, but if I were a Labor member of parliament worried about losing my seat at the next election, I would swallow my pride and give the party its best chance of winning, I'd vote for Rudd.

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longweekend58

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #19 - Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:11pm

skippy. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

if labor changes leader the independents have no say and no choice. they wont support abbott so labor can do what it wants.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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skippy.

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #20 - Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:17pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

skippy. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

if labor changes leader the independents have no say and no choice. they wont support abbott so labor can do what it wants.

Nice of you to agree with me longwhine. Grin

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longweekend58

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #21 - Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:37pm

skippy. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

skippy. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

if labor changes leader the independents have no say and no choice. they wont support abbott so labor can do what it wants.

Nice of you to agree with me longwhine. Grin

you dontb need to be a genius to know the indies wont support abbott. the inference therfore is that labor can change leaders if they want since the indies have no where to go - and never did.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Maqqa

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #22 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:50am

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/10334653/vaile-backs-stoner-for-fede...

Former deputy prime minister Mark Vaile says he would come out of political retirement to help New South Wales Deputy Premier Andrew Stoner take a tilt at federal politics.

There are reports that Mr Stoner has been approached by senior Nationals figures to take on Independent Rob Oakeshott in the seat of Lyne at the next election.

"I suspect it's pure speculation at this stage but all I've said is that if ultimately in a couple of years time when the next federal election comes round, and if Andrew Stoner, who is currently the deputy premier in NSW, decides that he wants to have a tilt at Canberra I'm more than happy to give him a hand," Mr Vaile said.

Mr Vaile held the seat of Lyne for 15 years until his retirement from politics in 2008, which triggered a by-election won by Mr Oakeshott.

He says if Mr Stoner does want to contest the next federal election, his chances would be very strong.

"He's very well regarded in the local area and the local community is very disappointed in Rob Oakeshott... particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said.

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #23 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:55am

Oakeshott is an idiot and an opportunist. In one of the middle pages of a newspaper in his electorate he was trashing the state member for not delivering anything yet on the front page was a big story about how she got funding for a new school to be built in the Port Macquarie area. Seems she's doing quite well while Oakeshott submitted about 100 project proposals for his electorate and not one of them received any fundiing. I think Oakeshott should worry about himself more and less about others - especially when they are doing a far better job of representing their constituents than he is.

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Dnarever

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #24 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:21am

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

skippy. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

if labor changes leader the independents have no say and no choice. they wont support abbott so labor can do what it wants.

If it hadn't been for the unfair sustained Abbott/ Lib /Media campaign against the independants they probably would have gone with the Liberals had Labor changed Leadership.

In the current situation I do not know what they would be likely to do.

Historically in Australia the precedent was a change of government when the conservatives stabbed Menzies in the back while he was overseas and replaced him with the country party leader the independents change to Labor. Though I doubt that Labor opposition had run a sustained unjustifiable personal attack against the independants of that time.

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Dnarever

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #25 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:25am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said.

You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had.

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Maqqa

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #26 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:27am

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:25am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said.

You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had.

that's a good one dna

arguably

Cheesy

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Dnarever

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #27 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:37am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:27am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:25am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said.

You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had.

that's a good one dna

arguably

How many other high taxing Australian governments have illegally sent us into a war where over 100,000 were killed only to later find that they made a mistake about the reasons?

In this situation how many other Australian governments were responsible for funding their enemy to the tune of $350 Million (AWB) - well besides Menzies (pig iron Bob) that is.

The answer is none - They arguable have super credentials for the position.

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Dnarever

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #28 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:41am

Looks like the Liberals have shot themselves in the foot on this one dosen't it. They would have had a good shot at forming government in this unlikely scenario had they acted reasonably.

If the independants swap sides the argument of a new election is very remote, in the original discussions Abbott had agreed to run the full term and I am sure this would still be part of any deal.

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Maqqa

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Re: Could the independents accept a new labor leader ?
Reply #29 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:43am

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:37am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:27am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:25am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said.

You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had.

that's a good one dna

arguably

How many other high taxing Australian governments have illegally sent us into a war where over 100,000 were killed only to later find that they made a mistake about the reasons?

In this situation how many other Australian governments were responsible for funding their enemy to the tune of $350 Million (AWB) - well besides Menzies (pig iron Bob) that is.

The answer is none - They arguable have super credentials for the position.

what do you mean by "high taxing"?

Is the "high taxing" due to a higher rate or higher GDP?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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