Australian Politics Forum - Paying for their sins

Wattle Grove

Ex Member

Paying for their sins
Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:52am

I have notice that most people that go to the anti carbon rallies are people over 55 years old.

Would it having anything to do of them voting Whitlam out of office back in 1975, i think it could be and the reason is as following.

Rex Connor the Minister for Minerals and Energy was trying to get money from the Middle East to built for one thing, a pipeline from the North West Gas Fields to the Eastern Seaboard.

Just think if Whitlam did not get voted out of office and Rex Connor got the money and the gas pipeline was built all the power stations, steel mills etc would be running on gas and there would be no reason to bring in a carbon tax at all.

Quote:

The Overseas Loans Affair

During 1975, the Government also endured the "Overseas Loans Affair", the story of efforts by the Minister for Minerals and Energy, Rex Connor, Treasurer Dr. Jim Cairns, and others, to raise an overseas loan of $4 billion. The loan was to be used to fund a number of natural resources and energy projects, including the construction of a natural gas pipeline, the electrification of interstate railways and a uranium enrichment plant.
The loan was sought not from the traditional American and European sources, but from the Middle East, which was awash with "petrodollars", following the quadrupling of oil prices in 1973 and 1974. A Pakistani broker, Tirath Khemlani, was used by Connor to secure the loan. In the end, no loan was ever obtained, no commissions were paid, but the government was made to look reckless and foolish.

A special one-day sitting of the House of Representatives was held on 9 July 1975, during which Whitlam tabled the loans documents and sought to defend the government's position.

During an emotional defence of his behaviour, Rex Connor proclaimed the Whitlam Government's defence of Australia's mineral resources and called upon the words of an old Australian poem:

Give me men to match my mountains,
Give me men to match my plains,
Men with freedom in their vision,
And creation in their brains.

Wracked by economic difficulties and the political impact of the Loans Affair scandal, the Whitlam Government was vulnerable throughout 1975. Whitlam had been forced to sack Dr. Jim Cairns from the government and a by-election in Lance Barnard's former seat of Bass in June 1975 saw a massive swing against the government and the election of the Liberal Party's Kevin Newman in a seat that had been held by the ALP for 60 years.

Rex Connor's authority to raise overseas loans was withdrawn in early 1975, but the minister continued to liaise with Khemlani. When the Melbourne "Herald" newspaper published documents supplied by Khemlani in October 1975, Connor was forced to resign from the Cabinet. He was replaced by a young Paul Keating.

After the resignation of Rex Connor in October 1975, the Opposition Leader, Malcolm Fraser, announed that the Senate would defer passage of the Supply Bills until Whitlam called an election. Whitlam refused. There followed three weeks of constitutional crisis as the parties confronted each other in Parliament and the country.

http://www.whitlamdismissal.com/loans/

I know I am going to be called a idiot and whatever to bring up my reason why most people at the rallies are over 55 yo. If you haven't got a good reason why they are it just goes to show that you can't think for youself.

By the way I am over 55yo and i think you should have a carbon tax.

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gizmo_2655

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South West NSW
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Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #1 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 9:59am

Quote:

I have notice that most people that go to the anti carbon rallies are people over 55 years old.

Would it having anything to do of them voting Whitlam out of office back in 1975, i think it could be and the reason is as following.

Rex Connor the Minister for Minerals and Energy was trying to get money from the Middle East to built for one thing, a pipeline from the North West Gas Fields to the Eastern Seaboard.

Just think if Whitlam did not get voted out of office and Rex Connor got the money and the gas pipeline was built all the power stations, steel mills etc would be running on gas and there would be no reason to bring in a carbon tax at all.

Quote:

The Overseas Loans Affair

During 1975, the Government also endured the "Overseas Loans Affair", the story of efforts by the Minister for Minerals and Energy, Rex Connor, Treasurer Dr. Jim Cairns, and others, to raise an overseas loan of $4 billion. The loan was to be used to fund a number of natural resources and energy projects, including the construction of a natural gas pipeline, the electrification of interstate railways and a uranium enrichment plant.
The loan was sought not from the traditional American and European sources, but from the Middle East, which was awash with "petrodollars", following the quadrupling of oil prices in 1973 and 1974. A Pakistani broker, Tirath Khemlani, was used by Connor to secure the loan. In the end, no loan was ever obtained, no commissions were paid, but the government was made to look reckless and foolish.

A special one-day sitting of the House of Representatives was held on 9 July 1975, during which Whitlam tabled the loans documents and sought to defend the government's position.

During an emotional defence of his behaviour, Rex Connor proclaimed the Whitlam Government's defence of Australia's mineral resources and called upon the words of an old Australian poem:

Give me men to match my mountains,
Give me men to match my plains,
Men with freedom in their vision,
And creation in their brains.

Wracked by economic difficulties and the political impact of the Loans Affair scandal, the Whitlam Government was vulnerable throughout 1975. Whitlam had been forced to sack Dr. Jim Cairns from the government and a by-election in Lance Barnard's former seat of Bass in June 1975 saw a massive swing against the government and the election of the Liberal Party's Kevin Newman in a seat that had been held by the ALP for 60 years.

Rex Connor's authority to raise overseas loans was withdrawn in early 1975, but the minister continued to liaise with Khemlani. When the Melbourne "Herald" newspaper published documents supplied by Khemlani in October 1975, Connor was forced to resign from the Cabinet. He was replaced by a young Paul Keating.

After the resignation of Rex Connor in October 1975, the Opposition Leader, Malcolm Fraser, announed that the Senate would defer passage of the Supply Bills until Whitlam called an election. Whitlam refused. There followed three weeks of constitutional crisis as the parties confronted each other in Parliament and the country.

http://www.whitlamdismissal.com/loans/

I know I am going to be called a idiot and whatever to bring up my reason why most people at the rallies are over 55 yo. If you haven't got a good reason why they are it just goes to show that you can't think for youself.

By the way I am over 55yo and i think you should have a carbon tax.

It might have something to do with all the anti-carbon tax rallies have been held mid-week...So it's really only semi-retired and retired people that could get to them...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #2 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 10:00am

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that young people are gullible and easily taken by slogans pitched at them by the ALP (also too young to remember Labor's numerous faults over the years) while the older people aren't as gullible and have learned hard lessons through experience over the years. Plus, most young people are at work to pay mortgages to support their young families.

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cods

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Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #3 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 10:08am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 10:00am:

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that young people are gullible and easily taken by slogans pitched at them by the ALP (also too young to remember Labor's numerous faults over the years) while the older people aren't as gullible and have learned hard lessons through experience over the years. Plus, most young people are at work to pay mortgages to support their young families.

young people dont worry about money... it falls off trees remember..+

and this govt btw is giving young people so much money it isnt funny...

now paid maternity leave...why would they knock that..and they know that the govt needs the CARBON TAX to fullfill that policy...

hey you know what if I was 25 I would probably be for it as well... who thinks outside the box at 25?????

silly question...sorry wattle.. but it is..at 55 + you get bugger all from the govt.

unless you call being 20cents better off and an extra $4 for those on the barest means of getting by worthwhile..

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Wattle Grove

Ex Member

Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #4 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 1:19pm

There has been anti carbon tax rallies held on the weekend and there was no young people at them.

When the anti Vietham war march were held they were wek days and there were mostly young people at them, I know cause i went to them. when the Waterfront dispute was held at parliament house in Canberra in 1998 it was held on a week day and it was mainly young people at it.

Then there is cods all she worry about is money so tell me cods why isn't there any young people at the anti tax rallies it is going to cost them money, it mostly cost them more then it would cost you they will live longer then you.

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Wattle Grove

Ex Member

Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #5 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 1:24pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 10:00am:

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that young people are gullible and easily taken by slogans pitched at them by the ALP (also too young to remember Labor's numerous faults over the years) while the older people aren't as gullible and have learned hard lessons through experience over the years. Plus, most young people are at work to pay mortgages to support their young families.

Since 1975 we have had 20 years of liberal governments and 16 years of Labor government and i done better under a Labor Government then a Liberal Government.

So tell us what are Labor faults are over the last 35 years, and you will find that there has been more Liberal Faults over the same time.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #6 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 1:26pm

Quote:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 10:00am:

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that young people are gullible and easily taken by slogans pitched at them by the ALP (also too young to remember Labor's numerous faults over the years) while the older people aren't as gullible and have learned hard lessons through experience over the years. Plus, most young people are at work to pay mortgages to support their young families.

Since 1975 we have had 20 years of liberal governments and 16 years of Labor government and i done better under a Labor Government then a Liberal Government.

So tell us what are Labor faults are over the last 35 years, and you will find that there has been more Liberal Faults over the same time.

You cant have done better under labor, for if it were not for the liberals, we would be in total poo poo with the GFC. Without a doubt.

Labors problems. Well there are many. Start with the tax and spend party. The incompetent party. The wasteful party.

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Wattle Grove

Ex Member

Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #7 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 1:40pm

progressiveslol wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 1:26pm:

Quote:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 10:00am:

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that young people are gullible and easily taken by slogans pitched at them by the ALP (also too young to remember Labor's numerous faults over the years) while the older people aren't as gullible and have learned hard lessons through experience over the years. Plus, most young people are at work to pay mortgages to support their young families.

Since 1975 we have had 20 years of liberal governments and 16 years of Labor government and i done better under a Labor Government then a Liberal Government.

So tell us what are Labor faults are over the last 35 years, and you will find that there has been more Liberal Faults over the same time.

You cant have done better under labor, for if it were not for the liberals, we would be in total poo poo with the GFC. Without a doubt.

Labors problems. Well there are many. Start with the tax and spend party. The incompetent party. The wasteful party.

So do you think all the tax cuts you got under the liberals were good policy when the pensioners got nothing, yeh think about yourself.

I love all the infrastructure that the Liberal built. trouble with you Liberals is you are all singing out of Alan Jones and News Ltd song book.

Think for yourself for a change. Ask why isn't there a Gas pipeline from the North West Gas Fields to the eastern seaboard, and I mean both government. Like I said in the OP if Whitlam wasn't voted out of office there would of been one.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #8 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 1:58pm

Quote:

progressiveslol wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 1:26pm:

Quote:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 10:00am:

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that young people are gullible and easily taken by slogans pitched at them by the ALP (also too young to remember Labor's numerous faults over the years) while the older people aren't as gullible and have learned hard lessons through experience over the years. Plus, most young people are at work to pay mortgages to support their young families.

Since 1975 we have had 20 years of liberal governments and 16 years of Labor government and i done better under a Labor Government then a Liberal Government.

So tell us what are Labor faults are over the last 35 years, and you will find that there has been more Liberal Faults over the same time.

You cant have done better under labor, for if it were not for the liberals, we would be in total poo poo with the GFC. Without a doubt.

Labors problems. Well there are many. Start with the tax and spend party. The incompetent party. The wasteful party.

So do you think all the tax cuts you got under the liberals were good policy when the pensioners got nothing, yeh think about yourself.

I love all the infrastructure that the Liberal built. trouble with you Liberals is you are all singing out of Alan Jones and News Ltd song book.

Think for yourself for a change. Ask why isn't there a Gas pipeline from the North West Gas Fields to the eastern seaboard, and I mean both government. Like I said in the OP if Whitlam wasn't voted out of office there would of been one.

Why would they want a gas pipeline to the eastern seaboard???
It's easier to load on the ships for sale overseas from the north west coast....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Gimme Gimme

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Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #9 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 2:07pm

Let's face it the Liberal party are and always have been in the last 50 years, the party of the elite and the rich. That is a fact, yet this current cycle of Liberals backed by billions from the mining industry are even more prone to grandiose lies and misinformation than any billionaire backed Liberal Party of the past..Why are Australians believing Abbott? Because we have a large section of the community who have become the greediest most thoughtless human beings on the planet next to their anti everything Tea Party Cory Bernardi style American cousins.

We have a generation of youth bought up on the Howard illegal war lies, the Howard credit card madness years where they got EVERYTHING they wanted but forgot that they had to pay for it later on..like NOW. Now the halcyon days of the Howard false economy are over and the credit card junkies are up to their necks in debt and blaming the Labor government for every new electronic gadget they can't afford to buy at Harvey Norman.

Their sins are not the sins of Julia Gillard or the Labor government..they are the sins of the past Liberal Party for putting a nation of young people, pensioners(yes Howard let banks give credit to the aged who had no wage other than a pension, this is a fact) in debt they could NOT afford. He gave banks a free reign to give credit like lollies so that Australians felt rich and could spend spend spend like their was no tomorrow. It made him look so good to the Howard battlers. Grin

While the Labor government is creating jobs, building infrastructure for the future of a green clean economy, spending on public education that has fallen into disrepair during the Howard years of neglect to the public education system, investing in all areas of the public health system..roads, industry, indigenous affairs, the list is endless.

And all we hear is Tony Abbott barking his mindless sound bites over and over again with NO policy, no intelligent debate offered just shilling all over the country making outrageous comments, smelling manure, putting apples on the shelf, cutting fish necks, telling lies to workers about the carbon price and supporting nasty sexist degenerates like Alan Jones stirring up the hate to mindless listeners with nothing better to do on the week days.

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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Paying for their sins Reply #10 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 2:12pm Gimme Gimme wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 2:07pm: Let's face it the Liberal party are and always have been in the last 50 years, the party of the elite and the rich. And if you want to look for the difference between 'modern' Labor and the Liberal parties, you'd best book time on an electron microscope....
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Gimme Gimme

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Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #11 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 2:21pm

I completely disagree...PM Julia Gillard has more humanity in her beautiful smile than Tony Abbott has in his whole wretched soul.

The Labor Party is doing great works for the people, by the people to benefit of the people...as they always have done.

The liberal Party has No policy other than wreck and burn everything that benefits the working class man and woman.

No similarities whatsoever.

That is simply put.. MURDOCH LIES.

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'If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.' &&John Lennon

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Paying for their sins
Reply #12 - Sep 25^th, 2011 at 2:38pm

Gimme Gimme wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 2:21pm:

I completely disagree...PM Julia Gillard has more humanity in her beautiful smile than Tony Abbott has in his whole wretched soul.

The Labor Party is doing great works for the people, by the people to benefit of the people...as they always have done.

The liberal Party has No policy other than wreck and burn everything that benefits the working class man and woman.

No similarities whatsoever.

That is simply put.. MURDOCH LIES.

Yes, I didn't suppose you would see it....

It takes two eyes to see it, and you're as one-eyed as Alan Jones....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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