Australian Politics Forum - policies, not parties

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59372
Here
Gender: male

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #15 - Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:49pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 6:37pm:

Abbott said the Carbon Tax was a better solution than the ETS ie the best of the worse situation (2:22)

He also say that you would get a rebate by keeping your receipts and claim it back at the end of the year (2:39)

That is clearly not what he said but your exaggerated interpretation.

His plan was different - he meant a real tax not a price on carbon which he has got away with calling a tax. He talks about charging people a tax rate on carbon usage which shows like all of his plans there is no pain for the carbon producers.

Of course the other problem with his plan is that if you charge a tax at one end then at the other end give it all back as he suggests have you really charged a tax at all?

Would this have worked? Obviously no it wouldn't.

So it seems that Abbott was in favour of a real tax but not in favour of a bogus tax.

He does not like a tax which impacts the source production even though nobody pays any tax what so ever in the process.

The liberals and Abbotts position on carbon is that there should be a price on it - this has been their position for about a decade.

Abbott is also on record as saying that if you are going to have a price on carbon then a tax is the best option (I agree with him).

This logically boils down to a statement like Tony Abbott supports a price on carbon and thinks that a tax is the best option.

This although interesting is well outside the point of the topic.

Back to top

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #16 - Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:59pm

The point of opposition on a carbon tax is an obvious one.

Why have Australian families got to suffer increased cost of living as a sirect result of a Government action for something which will do absolutely nothing to resolve global climate emissions?

My opposition to the scheme is purely based on economically we are worse off and environmentally we are pretty much the same.

Hence the tax is totally pointless.

Back to top

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49460 At my desk.	Re: policies, not parties Reply #17 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:49pm Maqqa it is a bit disingenuous to complain that I misrepresented Coalition policy on a carbon taxes. After all, they announced their own policy to put a price on carbon a while back.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #18 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:06pm

freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:49pm:

Maqqa it is a bit disingenuous to complain that I misrepresented Coalition policy on a carbon taxes. After all, they announced their own policy to put a price on carbon a while back.

the way I see it.. they have been forced into that.. its now a worldwide PANIC.. thanks to the likes of Al Gore..

the thing is to do it without passing the v=cost onto all and sundry I dont care what anyone says... we will end up paying a hell of a lot more than this $9.90 a week they claim we will pay... for instance did they take into account the price of petfood????

its just asmall thing but an awful lot of older people have pets..and I have noticed petfood has gone up an awful lot lately.. all these things are made by industries..which I am damn sure will get hit with this TAX.

ok.ok. I am a whinger so shoot me!

Back to top

IP Logged

____

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 33410
Australia
Gender: male

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #19 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 6:01am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:59pm:

The point of opposition on a carbon tax is an obvious one.

Why have Australian families got to suffer increased cost of living as a sirect result of a Government action for something which will do absolutely nothing to resolve global climate emissions?

My opposition to the scheme is purely based on economically we are worse off and environmentally we are pretty much the same.

Hence the tax is totally pointless.

It has already effected global temps. Because of Australia's action, China has acted.

As far as a pollution cost being a tax, is the pollution cost of storage at a nuke, a tax?

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49460 At my desk.	Re: policies, not parties Reply #20 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 10:16pm Quote: the thing is to do it without passing the v=cost onto all and sundry No cods, that is how the tax works.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #21 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 4:10pm

____ wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 6:01am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:59pm:

The point of opposition on a carbon tax is an obvious one.

Why have Australian families got to suffer increased cost of living as a sirect result of a Government action for something which will do absolutely nothing to resolve global climate emissions?

My opposition to the scheme is purely based on economically we are worse off and environmentally we are pretty much the same.

Hence the tax is totally pointless.

It has already effected global temps. Because of Australia's action, China has acted.

As far as a pollution cost being a tax, is the pollution cost of storage at a nuke, a tax?

Im sure somewhere inside your fevered brain you actually beleive that. I dont think anyone else does.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

GoddyofOz

Gold Member

Offline

Vote 1 for Sex, cause
you're gay if you don't

Posts: 2397

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #22 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:58pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 4:10pm:

____ wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 6:01am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:59pm:

The point of opposition on a carbon tax is an obvious one.

Why have Australian families got to suffer increased cost of living as a sirect result of a Government action for something which will do absolutely nothing to resolve global climate emissions?

My opposition to the scheme is purely based on economically we are worse off and environmentally we are pretty much the same.

Hence the tax is totally pointless.

It has already effected global temps. Because of Australia's action, China has acted.

As far as a pollution cost being a tax, is the pollution cost of storage at a nuke, a tax?

Im sure somewhere inside your fevered brain you actually beleive that. I dont think anyone else does.

What do you think China do with our Coal once they acquire it? Rebury it? Your statement is so stupid I almost fell out of my chair.

Back to top

"A Conservative is a man who just sits and thinks, mostly just sits." - Woodrow Wilson.

True Patriotism is serving your country all the time, and serving your Politicians when they deserve it.

IP Logged

hawil

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1345

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #23 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 8:53pm

culldav wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 1:13pm:

I understand what you are saying, but also feel the “mindless drone” or “fanatic” attitudes with political parties will always be around - human nature. There will always be some people that “want” to be blindly led around regardless…

For the past the past four years, Australia has been Governed by a group of parasitical politicians that have released schemes and ideas that would embarrass an 8 year olds mentality.

Australians don’t have a competent opposition political party, and now the people find themselves involved in voting for a group of people in a race to the bottom, not to the top - which is a sad course of events in Australia’s political history.

I find it difficult to believe that the Australian public has not woken up to the fact that ALL politicians are parasites and would “do” and “say” anything to keep themselves in power, and their noses in the tax payer funded troth.

Look at the Greens policy on animal welfare issues - a key methodology in their functioning as a party, but have totally given into the demands and whims of Labor in the cruel export of live animal trade. If this party cannot even keep one of its “key” methodologies and principals in tact as a group, then what credibility has the party got?

I have only used one issue in one party, but here are numerous issues in the Labor, Liberal/Nation party that could also be used to emphasis how political parties now “stand” for nothing.

It is sad that all the politicians are considered as parasites, sad, but true, but we as voters have only the choice to vote for the candidate on the ballot paper, if we like him/her or not, unless one votes informal.

The whole democratic system could be greatly improved if all the politicians were obliged to answer any question in any form to them, and not just simply ignore it, or answer with a lot of political gobbledegook

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #24 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 8:54pm

GoddyofOz wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 4:10pm:

____ wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 6:01am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:59pm:

The point of opposition on a carbon tax is an obvious one.

Why have Australian families got to suffer increased cost of living as a sirect result of a Government action for something which will do absolutely nothing to resolve global climate emissions?

My opposition to the scheme is purely based on economically we are worse off and environmentally we are pretty much the same.

Hence the tax is totally pointless.

It has already effected global temps. Because of Australia's action, China has acted.

As far as a pollution cost being a tax, is the pollution cost of storage at a nuke, a tax?

Im sure somewhere inside your fevered brain you actually beleive that. I dont think anyone else does.

What do you think China do with our Coal once they acquire it? Rebury it? Your statement is so stupid I almost fell out of my chair.

comprehension is clearly not your strong point. try reading it again in context of grab a 12year old to explain it to you. then come back again and answer my actual comment not the stupid idiocy you imagine was said.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

____

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 33410
Australia
Gender: male

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #25 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 5:52am

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 4:10pm:

____ wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 6:01am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:59pm:

The point of opposition on a carbon tax is an obvious one.

Why have Australian families got to suffer increased cost of living as a sirect result of a Government action for something which will do absolutely nothing to resolve global climate emissions?

My opposition to the scheme is purely based on economically we are worse off and environmentally we are pretty much the same.

Hence the tax is totally pointless.

It has already effected global temps. Because of Australia's action, China has acted.

As far as a pollution cost being a tax, is the pollution cost of storage at a nuke, a tax?

Im sure somewhere inside your fevered brain you actually beleive that. I dont think anyone else does.

Didn't take you long to revert to abusing posters. No wonder a lot of posters are losing interest in this forum.

Anyone interested in taking over the Greens Mod. I have better things to do than to put up with Longweekend's abuse.

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #26 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 10:23am

____ wrote on Oct 1^st, 2011 at 5:52am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 4:10pm:

____ wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 6:01am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:59pm:

The point of opposition on a carbon tax is an obvious one.

Why have Australian families got to suffer increased cost of living as a sirect result of a Government action for something which will do absolutely nothing to resolve global climate emissions?

My opposition to the scheme is purely based on economically we are worse off and environmentally we are pretty much the same.

Hence the tax is totally pointless.

It has already effected global temps. Because of Australia's action, China has acted.

As far as a pollution cost being a tax, is the pollution cost of storage at a nuke, a tax?

Im sure somewhere inside your fevered brain you actually beleive that. I dont think anyone else does.

Didn't take you long to revert to abusing posters. No wonder a lot of posters are losing interest in this forum.

Anyone interested in taking over the Greens Mod. I have better things to do than to put up with Longweekend's abuse.

poor diddums. abuse? what you received was pure MOCK - mocking you deserved for thinking China is somehow following Australias 'lead'.

You left once before. maybe you should do so again if it is all too hard for you.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: policies, not parties Reply #27 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 11:05am freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:49pm: Maqqa it is a bit disingenuous to complain that I misrepresented Coalition policy on a carbon taxes. After all, they announced their own policy to put a price on carbon a while back. I always welcome a reference to discuss
Back to top	Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number IP Logged

Maqqa

Gold Member

Offline

14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #28 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 11:06am

Dnarever wrote on Sep 26^th, 2011 at 12:49pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 6:37pm:

Abbott said the Carbon Tax was a better solution than the ETS ie the best of the worse situation (2:22)

He also say that you would get a rebate by keeping your receipts and claim it back at the end of the year (2:39)

That is clearly not what he said but your exaggerated interpretation.

His plan was different - he meant a real tax not a price on carbon which he has got away with calling a tax. He talks about charging people a tax rate on carbon usage which shows like all of his plans there is no pain for the carbon producers.

Of course the other problem with his plan is that if you charge a tax at one end then at the other end give it all back as he suggests have you really charged a tax at all?

Would this have worked? Obviously no it wouldn't.

So it seems that Abbott was in favour of a real tax but not in favour of a bogus tax.

He does not like a tax which impacts the source production even though nobody pays any tax what so ever in the process.

The liberals and Abbotts position on carbon is that there should be a price on it - this has been their position for about a decade.

Abbott is also on record as saying that if you are going to have a price on carbon then a tax is the best option (I agree with him).

This logically boils down to a statement like Tony Abbott supports a price on carbon and thinks that a tax is the best option.

This although interesting is well outside the point of the topic.

then open up your right eye and watch it again

Back to top

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49460
At my desk.

Re: policies, not parties
Reply #29 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 11:13am

Maqqa wrote on Oct 1^st, 2011 at 11:05am:

freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2011 at 9:49pm:

Maqqa it is a bit disingenuous to complain that I misrepresented Coalition policy on a carbon taxes. After all, they announced their own policy to put a price on carbon a while back.

I always welcome a reference to discuss

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1305806618

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1314886259

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1315037615/4#4

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1315476097/76#76

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1305720037/16#16

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged