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Yadda

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Re: islam murders
Reply #15 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 1:09pm

falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 12:43pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

I cannot in good conscience view ISLAM as an 'Abrahamic faith'.

Abraham was neither Christian nor Jew. he was indeed an Orthodox Muslim (surrendered to the will of God).

When Abraham submitted to God's will, and was prepared to sacrifice his own son in submission to God's will he was indeed a submitter (Muslim).

Islam means (submission to the will of God Almighty.

There was no such thing as Christian or jew in the time of Abraham - those religions were only invented much later.

Yet any man in any time can submit to the will of God and be Muslim.

"....Abraham.....was indeed a submitter (Muslim)."

Vain, vain, LIAR.

It is not God who kills me [while in this life], if i do not submit to the will of God.

It is a moslem who kills me [while in this life], if i do not submit to the will of moslems.

Dictionary;

vanity = =
1 excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements.
2 the quality of being worthless or futile.

Moslems, vain self-idolaters [who make themselves God, in their own hearts]....

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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« Last Edit: Sep 30^th, 2011 at 1:38pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: islam murders Reply #16 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 1:28pm falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 12:43pm: Yet any man in any time can submit to the will of God and be Muslim.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95446 Gender:	Re: islam murders Reply #17 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:03pm falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 12:43pm: Yet any man in any time can submit to the will of God and be Muslim. Thank you for writing this, my brother. Many of us here are Muslims - some, insh'allah, do not know it yet.
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falah

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Re: islam murders
Reply #18 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:35pm

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Orthodox Submitter (Islamic Monotheist - worshipping none but God alone) and he was not of idolaters

The Quran, 3:67

Say: "Verily, my Lord hath directed me to the straight way, a true religion, the way of Abraham the Orthodox; and he was no idolater."

Say: "Verily, my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all Creation.

The Quran, 6:161-162

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« Last Edit: Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:44pm by falah »

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: islam murders Reply #19 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 11:49pm falah - it is a basic fallacy to use the koran to prove the koran correct ie, it is a circular argument to use a quote from a book to prove the same book is true. eg - the koran is right because the koran says it it right
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falah Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3162	Re: islam murders Reply #20 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 3:04am Obviously you don not get it. The Quran reasons with mankind; think about it, was Abraham a Christian or a Jew? You can check the book of Genesis in the Bible for yourself and see that it does not say that Abraham was a Christian or a Jew - those religions did not exist until centuries later.
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Soren

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Re: islam murders
Reply #21 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 9:37am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 11:49pm:

falah - it is a basic fallacy to use the koran to prove the koran correct

ie, it is a circular argument to use a quote from a book to prove the same book is true.
eg - the koran is right because the koran says it it right

falah wrote on Oct 1^st, 2011 at 3:04am:

Obviously you don not get it. The Quran reasons with mankind.

There's the paradox of the Mohammedan closed mindedness: a paradox is convincing, while reason is anathema.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: islam murders
Reply #22 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 1:18pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 11:49pm:

falah - it is a basic fallacy to use the koran to prove the koran correct

ie, it is a circular argument to use a quote from a book to prove the same book is true.
eg - the koran is right because the koran says it it right

A tactic used also by fundamentalist Christians, all cults, "Hollywood Healers", Life Coaches and financial spruikers.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: islam murders Reply #23 - Oct 1^st, 2011 at 2:39pm
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Yadda

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Re: islam murders
Reply #24 - Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 3:38am

falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Orthodox Submitter (Islamic Monotheist - worshipping none but God alone) and he was not of idolaters

The Quran, 3:67

Say: "Verily, my Lord hath directed me to the straight way, a true religion, the way of Abraham the Orthodox; and he was no idolater."

Say: "Verily, my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all Creation.

The Quran, 6:161-162

John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Moslems refuse to keep God's law [the law revealed to Moses].

Not even, the ten commandments.

John 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Abraham was not a murderer.

Moslems, through their scripture, promote murder, and not for any crime.

But moslems will murder a person when that person resists the will of moslems.

Ergo, Abraham could NOT have been a moslem.

Abraham was not an oppressor, of his fellow man.

It is nowhere recorded that Abraham murdered those who resisted his will.

Consider the story in the Bible of the destruction of Sodom.

Abraham reasoned with God, seeking to know if God would NOT destroy Sodom, if there were 10 innocent people living there.

Abraham was advocating, with God!, for the [possible] innocents in Sodom.

"Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?"

There is no mention that these [possible] innocent people, were, or were not, believers in Abraham's God [i.e. 'moslems'].

Genesis 18:16-33

But moslems take it upon themselves, to murder those, who resist THEIR WILL.

NO RIGHTEOUS MAN WOULD DO THIS MURDER.

And God will judge them.

This law, moslem law, has no counterpart, in either Judaism, or Christianity....

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98
[i.e. 'Unbelief' is a crime.]

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76
[i.e. Fighting against 'unbelievers' is sanctified, fighting against 'unbelievers' is 'good works'. Because 'unbelievers' [of Allah] are in league with SATAN. So those who are indeed, good moslems will fight against the 'unbelievers'.]

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

+++

The only sanction in Judaism [in Jewish laws], to kill 'unbelievers', was a sanction to kill those Hebrews [only] who wilfully became covenant breakers.

But there was never a sanction to kill non-Hebrews, because they were non-Hebrews.

The only non-Hebrews, that were killed by the Hebrews were those who GOD deemed to be criminals, because of their own wicked conduct, in God's holy land.

Leviticus 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

Leviticus 20:22
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: islam murders
Reply #25 - Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 9:23am

Yadda wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 3:38am:

falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Orthodox Submitter (Islamic Monotheist - worshipping none but God alone) and he was not of idolaters

The Quran, 3:67

Say: "Verily, my Lord hath directed me to the straight way, a true religion, the way of Abraham the Orthodox; and he was no idolater."

Say: "Verily, my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all Creation.

The Quran, 6:161-162

Consider the story in the Bible of the destruction of Sodom.

Abraham reasoned with God, seeking to know if God would NOT destroy Sodom, if there were 10 innocent people living there.

Abraham was advocating, with God!, for the [possible] innocents in Sodom.

"Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?"

There is no mention that these [possible] innocent people, were, or were not, believers in Abraham's God [i.e. 'moslems'].

Genesis 18:16-33

Abraham didn't say,

"Yes you should kill the people of Sodom, because they are not moslems [OR, you should kill the people of Sodom, because they don't worship you, God]."

Abraham said, TO GOD,

"Hey, is it OK to kill the people of Sodom, because there many be innocent people there too ?"

Genesis 18:23
And Abraham drew near, and said,

Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Abraham was a brave soul, who knew the difference between righteousness, and wickedness, and who knew the difference between good, and evil.

Abraham was a righteous soul, and even brave enough to demonstrate to his God, that he, Abraham, was a righteous soul.

Abraham was not a fawning, servile flatterer.

Abraham was not a moslem.

+++

Compare Abraham's conduct, with the conduct of moslems [from an ISLAMIC source]....

....."Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) faced the Black Stone, touched it, and then placed his lips on it and wept for a long time."
.....Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar bent down towards the Black Stone and said: "By Allah! I know that you are a mere stone, and if I had not seen my beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) kissing you and touching you I would have never done so." The Qur'an says: "You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct)."'
....'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.'
law/fiqhussunnah/fus5_76.html#5.74b

Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar.....

'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.'

What all moslems are....

Dictionary;

sycophant = = a toady; a servile flatterer.

Moslems take it upon themselves, to murder those, who resist THEIR WILL.

NO RIGHTEOUS MAN WOULD DO THIS MURDER.

And God will judge them.

And Abraham was a brave and righteous man, and no moslem.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: islam murders
Reply #26 - Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 9:36am

Yadda wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 9:23am:

Compare Abraham's conduct, with the conduct of moslems [from an ISLAMIC source]....

....."Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) faced the Black Stone, touched it, and then placed his lips on it and wept for a long time."
.....Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar bent down towards the Black Stone and said: "By Allah! I know that you are a mere stone, and if I had not seen my beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) kissing you and touching you I would have never done so." The Qur'an says: "You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct)."'
....'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.'
law/fiqhussunnah/fus5_76.html#5.74b

Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar.....

'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.'

All moslems, venerate and worship Mohammed, not God, not God's righteousness.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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falah

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Re: islam murders
Reply #27 - Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 4:38pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 9:36am:

All moslems, venerate and worship Mohammed, not God, not God's righteousness.

Rubbish Yadda.

Prophet Muhammed's closest companion, who was elected as the Caliph when the prophet passed away, summed up the Islamic position on this issue succinctly:

"Whoever worshipped Muhammad, let him know that Muhammad is dead, but whoever worshipped God, let him know that God lives and dies not."

This is Islamic orthodoxy. Muhammed is a human. Only God Almighty alone has the right to be worship.

The first tenet of faith called out of mosques at the time of prayer makes this clear:

"There is no deity except God".

Islam is the ulimate monotheistic religion.

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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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Yadda

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Re: islam murders
Reply #28 - Oct 3^rd, 2011 at 9:29am

falah wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 4:38pm:

Yadda wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 9:36am:

All moslems, venerate and worship Mohammed, not God, not God's righteousness.

Rubbish Yadda.

....."There is no deity except God".

Islam is the ulimate monotheistic religion.

Monotheistic ???

LOL

ISLAM is the ultimate idolatry, committed by men, by moslems.

Dictionary;

idolatry = =
1 worship of idols.
2 adulation.

All moslems commit the crime of shirk.

Shirk = = joining partners with Allah, perhaps the greatest crime.

Google;

shirk crime joining

And all moslems commit open SHIRK, in their adulation of Mohammed.

Throughout the Koran, it is clear that Mohammed is given equal status with Allah....
e.g.
"The people of 'Usaiya have disobeyed Allah and His Apostle."

Throughout the Koran you can see these words repeated, 100's and 100's of times.....

"....Allah and His Apostle.",
"....Allah and His Apostle.",
"....Allah and His Apostle."

e.g.
In the Hadith....

" Narrated Anas:
The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:
1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle becomes dearer than anything else.
2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.
3. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire." "

Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 15:

Moslems are worshipping Allah and His Apostle.

Shirk is something which is supposed to be 'verbotten' to moslems.

Hypocrites.
Mohammed worshippers!
Idolaters!
.....moslems.

Regards this 'equality' of Mohammed, with Allah, see also....

Part 161 - Muhammad and Allah

http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/08/muhammad-allah-part-161.html

Part 163 - Muhammad the Humble

http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/08/muhammad-humble-part-163.html

source...
http://www.al-rassooli.com/ahmadsquran3/

It is recorded within ISLAMIC texts that even Aisha Mohammed's 9 year old child bride recognised how Allah's revelations always seemed to coincide with Mohammed's immediate, worldly, desires...

Narrated Aisha:

"I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires." "

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #006.060.311

Even Aisha knew that Mohammed was a fraud.

Mohammed, was a fraud, and the author, of his own God and benefactor, Allah.

Mohammed, did not serve Allah.

Allah served Mohammed.

Every time that Mohammed wished to exercise a new lust, Allah obligingly presented Mohammed with a new revelation, sanctioning his new lust.

And moslems today, choose to worship Mohammed, a carnal, self-serving, incestuous, adulterer, and fornicator....and all of these crimes by Mohammed were justified by each of Allah's convenient, and timely new revelation, to sanctify Mohammed's desire.

And it is recorded in ISLAM's own foundation texts, that Mohammed, was a carnal, self-serving, incestuous ['marrying' his son's wife], adulterer, and fornicator [all of that 'war booty', captive women, which Mohammed raped], and a murderer.

And yet moslems today choose to worship Mohammed, the man who, within ISLAM's own foundation texts, is given equal status with Allah.

Moslems will of course deny this, because moslems unerringly, always deny truths which they refuse to acknowledge and confront.

But no moslem can deny that moslems do venerate Mohammed, even demonstrating this veneration, by murdering those who critically scrutinise Mohammed's life and his evil deeds.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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falah

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Re: islam murders
Reply #29 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 1:05pm

Nay, it is Christian who worship a human in the form of Jesus Christ, son of Mary.

Islam absolutely forbids the worshipping of humans including Prophet Muhammed:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654:

Narrated 'Umar: I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Prophet."

The Qur'an, Family of Imran (Jesus' grandfather) v.

144  : Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many Were the messenger that passed away before him (messengers such as Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc.)...

Other verses from the Quran:

072.018  "And the places of worship are for God (alone): So invoke not any one along with God.

006.088  This is the guidance of God: He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His worshippers. If they were to join other gods with Him, all that they did would be vain for them.

002.116  They say: "God hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.

020.014  "Verily, I am God: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

003.064  Say: "O People of the Bible! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

018.110 Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.

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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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