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Sprintcyclist

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islam murders
Sep 29^th, 2011 at 9:54am

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THE UK's Foreign Secretary and the Archbishop of Canterbury intervened today to try to save a Christian pastor in Iran who has refused to renounce his faith to escape a death sentence.

An Iranian court gave Youcef Nadarkhani, 34, a third and final chance to avoid hanging, but he replied, "I am resolute in my faith and Christianity and have no wish to recant."

The panel of five judges will decide within a week whether to confirm his execution for apostasy, Mohammed Ali Dadkhah, his lawyer, told The (London) Times.

William Hague said he "deplored" Pastor Nadarkhani's plight, and a senior Foreign and Commonwealth Office diplomat telephoned the Iranian charge d'affaires in London to protest.

"This demonstrates the Iranian regime's continued unwillingness to abide by its constitutional and international obligations to respect religious freedom," Mr Hague said. "I pay tribute to the courage shown by Pastor Nadarkhani, who has no case to answer, and call on the Iranian authorities to overturn his sentence."

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The Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, broke his silence to express "deep concern" at the sentence faced by Nadarkhani, and at the persecution of religious minorities in Iran generally.

A member of the Protestant evangelical Church of Iran and the father of two young boys, Nadarkhani held services in underground "home churches" in Rasht, a provincial town about 240km north-west of Tehran.

In 2009, he challenged the regime's insistence that all schools should teach Islam. He was arrested in October that year and has been imprisoned in Rasht ever since. He was sentenced to death for apostasy by a court in Rasht last year.

Sources said Christian clerics and advisers had been working hard behind the scenes to save the pastor's life, but had sought to avoid "megaphone diplomacy" in case it did more harm than good.

The US Department of State has also condemned the Iranian judiciary for demanding that Nadarkhani renounce his faith or face execution.

"While Iran's leaders hypocritically claim to promote tolerance, they continue to detain, imprison, harass and abuse those who simply wish to worship the faith of their choosing," it said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/christian-pastor-in-iran-face...

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40723 Gender:	Re: islam murders Reply #1 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 10:55am bump - hi abu and les
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falah

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Re: islam murders
Reply #2 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 10:57am

Let us see what the Bible says to do with apostates:

Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9:

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death
. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

How about Deuteronomy 17:3-5:

"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....

and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die

."

Those who engage in fortune telling should be executed:

"And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:27)

2 Chronicles 15:13:

"All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether young(children) or old, man or woman."

Maybe Jesus takes a softer approach?

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

Matthew 15:1-9

1 Then some Pharisees and rabbis came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied,

"And why do you break the command of God

for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and

'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

'
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6 he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

Let us look at the founder of the trinitarian church, Paul, what does he have to say in the Bible:

He says every disbeliever deserves death!

Romans 1:20-32

"20. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30. slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31. they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death...

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40723 Gender:	Re: islam murders Reply #3 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 1:35pm the OT is for jews. the nt is for christians. jesus was a jew, so he was bound by that. the gospels of the bible are from that viwepoint and many of the quote Jesus uses are to prove the pharisees morally corrupt. christianity requires a bit of mental intelligence to understand. It requires only an open heart to receive.
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Soren

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Re: islam murders
Reply #4 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 4:03pm

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 10:57am:

Let us see what the Bible says to do with apostates:

Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9:

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death
. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

How about Deuteronomy 17:3-5:

"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....

and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die

."

Those who engage in fortune telling should be executed:

"And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:27)

2 Chronicles 15:13:

"All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether young(children) or old, man or woman."

Maybe Jesus takes a softer approach?

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

Matthew 15:1-9

1 Then some Pharisees and rabbis came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied,

"And why do you break the command of God

for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and

'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

'
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6 he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

Let us look at the founder of the trinitarian church, Paul, what does he have to say in the Bible:

He says every disbeliever deserves death!

Romans 1:20-32

"20. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30. slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31. they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death...

I thought the whole point of Mohammed's prophethood was that the jews and the christians had hopelessly corrupted the sacred texts. But now Mohammedans like you are happy to quote those same texts as authoritatively supporting your religious terror.

This is typical of the semi-literate priapic: whatever supports his whims is the word of god, whatever doesn't is jewsih corruption.
You probably think that the greatest corruption is that neither jews nor christians kill apostates.

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« Last Edit: Sep 29^th, 2011 at 4:13pm by Soren »

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falah

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Re: islam murders
Reply #5 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 5:43pm

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

I thought the whole point of Mohammed's prophethood was that the jews and the christians had hopelessly corrupted the sacred texts. But now Mohammedans like you are happy to quote those same texts as authoritatively supporting your religious terror.

This is typical of the semi-literate priapic: whatever supports his whims is the word of god, whatever doesn't is jewsih corruption.
You probably think that the greatest corruption is that neither jews nor christians kill apostates.

I never said that the Bible was the word of God.

I posted the verses of the Bible to point out your own hypocrisy.

Do you believe in your own holy book or not?

If you believed that Bible is God's word, then should'nt you obey Him. But alas you hypocrites do not believe.

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falah

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Re: islam murders
Reply #6 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 5:45pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 1:35pm:

the OT is for jews.
the nt is for christians.

jesus was a jew, so he was bound by that.
the gospels of the bible are from that viwepoint and many of the quote Jesus uses are to prove the pharisees morally corrupt.

christianity requires a bit of mental intelligence to understand.
It requires only an open heart to receive.

You do not follow your own prophet? Jesus' words are not worth much to you are they?

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5397 Gender:	Re: islam murders Reply #7 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 5:57pm In spite of what the bible says, when was the last time Jews or Christians executed anyone for apostasy? You see, most people who profess some sort of faith do not take the bible literally or see it as an infallible guide to all lifes dilemmas. But muslims on the other hand are still stuck in that dark age rut.
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falah Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3162	Re: islam murders Reply #8 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 9:43pm So Christians and jews do not really believe in their book, and do not want to obey God? Don't really sound like true believers do they?
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Soren

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Re: islam murders
Reply #9 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 9:43pm

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 5:43pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

I thought the whole point of Mohammed's prophethood was that the jews and the christians had hopelessly corrupted the sacred texts. But now Mohammedans like you are happy to quote those same texts as authoritatively supporting your religious terror.

This is typical of the semi-literate priapic: whatever supports his whims is the word of god, whatever doesn't is jewsih corruption.
You probably think that the greatest corruption is that neither jews nor christians kill apostates.

I never said that the Bible was the word of God.

I posted the verses of the Bible to point out your own hypocrisy.

Do you believe in your own holy book or not?

If you believed that Bible is God's word, then should'nt you obey Him. But alas you hypocrites do not believe.

Ah, the "word of god".
You have to be a semiliterate Arab merchant (or his follower) to believe that God dictates books like an emperor, word for word. This stupid misunderstanding of a meshuggeh is the foundation misunderstanding of islam. It makes islam a parody of a revealed religion.

Islam suffers - and makes the rest of the world suffer - by Mohammed's misunderstandings, all due to his apeing of what he didn't, couldn't understand. They all come from the absurd literalism of a semilitrate. His mad reverence for literalness is the awe of the unlettered.

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Soren

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Re: islam murders
Reply #10 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 10:03pm

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 9:43pm:

So Christians and jews do not really believe in their book, and do not want to obey God? Don't really sound like true believers do they?

"We then, as workers together with him,... (etc)"

The (human) world, in the judeo-Christian understanding, is the co-creation of man and god. Theologically, philosophically, ethically, artistically, in every conceivable way, this is a more fruitful and felicitous way of understanding the relationhip between man and god (if the existence of god is to be entertained in any way) that the Mohammedan understanding of master and slave, supreme whimsical overlord and abject puppet.

You puppets nevertheless have the laughable self-conceit to discern that god wants you to kill everyone who doesn't submit (I-slam) to your stupidity which you can only ever spread by terror and maintain by the terror of your apostaty laws.

Furthermore, you have petrified time so for you 632 AD is as if yesterday, as far as doctrinal dictates of life are concerned. If the final 'word of God' was uttered in 632, then the whole awy of life, of seeing, of being in 632 IS the way to see and live, then, now and for all times.
You are all barking mad, whchich may be endearing if you kept thi nonsene as a private confession. But you are dangerous mandmen because you want to impose it on others.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: islam murders
Reply #11 - Sep 29^th, 2011 at 11:37pm

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 5:45pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 1:35pm:

the OT is for jews.
the nt is for christians.

jesus was a jew, so he was bound by that.
the gospels of the bible are from that viwepoint and many of the quote Jesus uses are to prove the pharisees morally corrupt.

christianity requires a bit of mental intelligence to understand.
It requires only an open heart to receive.

You do not follow your own prophet? Jesus' words are not worth much to you are they?

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

you are right at the lightbulb moment falah. Consider it for a while.

jesus was a jew, so he was bound by the OT laws.
He did not come to "abolish" the OT laws, the OT laws were "correct".
It is man who could not live by the laws.
So the laws showed man where he was wrong, at the same time the laws isolated man from God.
So how is God to draw men back to himself ?
Under the OT laws, a penalty is to be paid for breaches of the law.
Jesus is the payment of that breach. He is the payment of every breach.
Every christian admits they have erred - that's a human condition.

That's the "open heart" part of becoming a christian

I've just been given this for you falah.

"For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." "
Mark 10:45

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« Last Edit: Sep 30^th, 2011 at 1:47am by Sprintcyclist »

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Yadda

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Re: islam murders
Reply #12 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 8:11am

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 10:03pm:

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 9:43pm:

So Christians and jews do not really believe in their book, and do not want to obey God? Don't really sound like true believers do they?

"We then, as workers together with him,... (etc)"

The (human) world, in the judeo-Christian understanding, is the co-creation of man and god. Theologically, philosophically, ethically, artistically, in every conceivable way, this is a more fruitful and felicitous way of understanding the relationhip between man and god (if the existence of god is to be entertained in any way) that the Mohammedan understanding of master and slave, supreme whimsical overlord and abject puppet.

You puppets nevertheless have the laughable self-conceit to discern that god wants you to kill everyone who doesn't submit (I-slam) to your stupidity which you can only ever spread by terror and maintain by the terror of your apostaty laws.

Furthermore, you have petrified time so for you 632 AD is as if yesterday, as far as doctrinal dictates of life are concerned. If the final 'word of God' was uttered in 632, then the whole awy of life, of seeing, of being in 632 IS the way to see and live, then, now and for all times.

You are all barking mad, whchich may be endearing if you kept thi nonsene as a private confession. But you are dangerous mandmen because you want to impose it on others.

Fair comment Soren.

I cannot in good conscience view ISLAM as an 'Abrahamic faith'.

I view ISLAM as a travesty, and as a totally false and fabricated monotheistic 'faith'.

IMO, moslems, in embracing ISLAM are being lead by their basest human [carnal] emotions: ....human envy, selfish human greed, human lust.

All men are self deceivers, no more so, moslems.

Led [to their own doom] by their carnal, worldly desires.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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falah

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Re: islam murders
Reply #13 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 12:43pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

I cannot in good conscience view ISLAM as an 'Abrahamic faith'.

Abraham was neither Christian nor Jew. he was indeed an Orthodox Muslim (surrendered to the will of God).

When Abraham submitted to God's will, and was prepared to sacrifice his own son in submission to God's will he was indeed a submitter (Muslim).

Islam means (submission to the will of God Almighty.

There was no such thing as Christian or jew in the time of Abraham - those religions were only invented much later.

Yet any man in any time can submit to the will of God and be Muslim.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40723 Gender:	Re: islam murders Reply #14 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 1:09pm Quote: ........There was no such thing as Christian or jew in the time of Abraham - those religions were only invented much later. ......... when was islam invented ?
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