Australian Politics Forum - Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids

Kytro

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Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Oct 5^th, 2011 at 1:20pm

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Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
So they read these stories and then asked the listener how the event could be explained. The surprising thing was that the kids hardly ever offered up supernatural explanations. Instead, they would say that maybe the cancer patient slept a lot, which helped her get better. Or, for the athletic woman who tripped on her wedding day, “because she tripped over a rock while she was walking. People usually trip over stuff and fall.”

Adults, on the other hand, readily offered up supernatural explanations. There was a clear trend, too, as you can see in the graph - the older the child, the more likely they were to explain these strange happenings by recourse to the supernatural

It is interesting that superstition needs to be taught rather than being an intrinsic response. Perhaps after we get older we start to run into more complicated sorts of problems that trigger superstition that then is applied to more simplistic events.

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids Reply #1 - Oct 5^th, 2011 at 1:30pm Hmmnnn....I doubt that a bunch of white kids growing up from infancy in isolation from adults (and therefore in the absence of verbal language) would readily-invent an Xtian doG figure of their own accord eitherer!
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Yadda

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #2 - Oct 5^th, 2011 at 2:09pm

Children can be very perceptive.

Much more so than adults.

It is when we grow up in the world, and choose to embrace the world, that will 'dull' our other 'childish' perceptions of reality.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 18:15
And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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nairbe

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #3 - Oct 11^th, 2011 at 8:26pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 5^th, 2011 at 2:09pm:

Children can be very perceptive.

Much more so than adults.

It is when we grow up in the world, and choose to embrace the world, that will 'dull' our other 'childish' perceptions of reality.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 18:15
And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

WOW Yadda you are so arrogant to quote the bible, the biggest work of historical fiction ever written.(and bible is in lower case for a good reason).

The whole point in atheism is that we don't believe in a god figure so this i know is for you impossible to understand but for an atheist god just simply is not a fantasy we can comprehend as it is just so insane we wonder why you are not certified.

I have never imposed my ideals on my children though i accept that as their parent it is impossible not to have some influence by who we are over our children. Mind you as a ministers child myself i have always explained what events such as easter and christmas are with out the dopey rabbit and paedophile man in the red suit. I have no fear of different ideas and the diversity of religious ideals. As an atheist it simply does not matter. I don't have to hate the jews or the muslims or for that matter the most hateful of all the christians. Hell who else has been at the centre of all the most hateful and destructive campagnes of the last 2000 years.

In the end truth is all it takes and truth is what you hear from kids. So often young children will laugh at you when you tell them a bible storey, then say something like "that is such a silly storey, no one would believe that". Funny the rubbish adults will believe to justify our own need to justify our existence.

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"Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage."
Confucius

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Yadda

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #4 - Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:15am

nairbe wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 8:26pm:

WOW Yadda you are so arrogant to quote the bible, the biggest work of historical fiction ever written.(and bible is in lower case for a good reason).

The whole point in atheism is that we don't believe in a god figure so this i know is for you impossible to understand but for an atheist god just simply is not a fantasy we can comprehend as it is just so insane we wonder why you are not certified.

I have never imposed my ideals on my children

though i accept that as their parent it is impossible not to have some influence by who we are over our children. Mind you as a ministers child myself i have always explained what events such as easter and christmas are with out the dopey rabbit and paedophile man in the red suit. I have no fear of different ideas and the diversity of religious ideals. As an atheist it simply does not matter. I don't have to hate the jews or the muslims or for that matter the most hateful of all the christians. Hell who else has been at the centre of all the most hateful and destructive campagnes of the last 2000 years.

In the end truth is all it takes and truth is what you hear from kids. So often young children will laugh at you when you tell them a bible storey, then say something like "that is such a silly storey, no one would believe that". Funny the rubbish adults will believe to justify our own need to justify our existence.

I find it difficult to believe that that is true.

If you never did, then it would be difficult to think of you as even trying to be a good, nurturing parent.

Or alternatively, perhaps you feel that your [own] 'ideals' are worthless ?

And are not worthy of being imparted to your children ?

Which is it ?

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #5 - Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:59pm

I remember going for a walk one night and watching an eclipse of the moon. I met an acquaintance and pointed the spectacular sight out to him.

He looked at it for a few seconds, then asked, "So what's that a sign of?"

I said slightly louder, trying not to sound annoyed - "It's a sign that the Earth is between the moon and the sun and its shadow is blocking the sunlight from reaching the moon's surface."

"Oh - ok"

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Yadda

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #6 - Oct 13^th, 2011 at 11:40am

muso wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

I remember going for a walk one night and watching an eclipse of the moon. I met an acquaintance and pointed the spectacular sight out to him.

He looked at it for a few seconds, then asked, "So what's that a sign of?"

I said slightly louder, trying not to sound annoyed - "It's a sign that the Earth is between the moon and the sun and its shadow is blocking the sunlight from reaching the moon's surface."

"Oh - ok"

Well it is good muso, to see that you can still experience childish awe [if you did Wink

], even if your acquaintance appeared nonplussed.

I myself, am a little perturbed by what seems like a significant 'wobble', which our earth appears to have.

This wobble is demonstrated by the large variance in the position on the horizon of moon rise and setting, and of the large variance in the position on the horizon of sun rise and setting [over a period of months].

But apparently its nothing to be worried about. Wink

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids Reply #7 - Oct 13^th, 2011 at 11:50am Quote: I have never imposed my ideals on my children Why the hell not???? Is it not the role of the parent to impart the wisdom they have gleaned from their years on this earth? Why would you think it a good thing to deny them your guidance, and force them to go it alone?
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Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids Reply #8 - Oct 13^th, 2011 at 1:06pm I'd say the most important thing to teach children is critical thinking skills along with moral reasoning. Most situations in life don't deal with complicated moral situations usually it's just the straightforward stuff like not killing or hurting other people or taking their stuff.
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Yadda

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #9 - Oct 13^th, 2011 at 1:58pm

Kytro wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 1:06pm:

I'd say the most important thing to teach children is critical thinking skills along with moral reasoning.

Most situations in life don't deal with complicated moral situations usually it's just the straightforward stuff like not killing or hurting other people or taking their stuff.

Good one, Kytro.

I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Amadd

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #10 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 7:20am

Yadda wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 1:58pm:

Kytro wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 1:06pm:

I'd say the most important thing to teach children is critical thinking skills along with moral reasoning.

Most situations in life don't deal with complicated moral situations usually it's just the straightforward stuff like not killing or hurting other people or taking their stuff.

Good one, Kytro.

I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.

I'd say that it all means nought unless you act upon your convictions.

Kids mimic actions, they don't usually try to decifer and philosophise the inner thoughts, purpose and being of the parent. Especially when the parent can't even do it themselves.
Most parents overrate themselves IMO. Essentially, a parent's thoughts and intentions are useless to a child. Those things are personal and individual developments where the parent should rejoice and relax upon their lack of influence in that department.
Eventually, the child will realise that you are full of sh!t.i

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Yadda

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #11 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 10:02am

Amadd wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 7:20am:

Yadda wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 1:58pm:

Kytro wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 1:06pm:

I'd say the most important thing to teach children is critical thinking skills along with moral reasoning.

Most situations in life don't deal with complicated moral situations usually it's just the straightforward stuff like not killing or hurting other people or taking their stuff.

Good one, Kytro.

I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.

I'd say that it all means nought unless you act upon your convictions.

Kids mimic actions, they don't usually try to decifer and philosophise the inner thoughts, purpose and being of the parent. Especially when the parent can't even do it themselves.
Most parents overrate themselves IMO. Essentially, a parent's thoughts and intentions are useless to a child.

Those things are personal and individual developments where the parent should rejoice and relax upon their lack of influence in that department.

Eventually, the child will realise that you are full of sh!t.

People who lack moral direction [i.e. ppl who lack 'moral reasoning'] exhibit confusion in their lives, imo.

Such people often commit suicide, imo.

'Humanists' are 'empty people', imo.

'Humanist' 'professionals' teach us, and our children, that for us to [seek to] discern between good and evil, is a social crime.

That is what 'humanists' are teaching us, and our children.

And it is crap. <---- that is a technical term.

+++

THINK!

Quote:

Do the immoral and perverted have a strongly held philosophy?
Yes. These days you hear their philosophy all the time. It is
epitomized in a single word: "tolerance". Tolerance is their
watchword, their slogan. They repeat it and repeat it over
and over. They know that by the constant repetition they
influence people, influence the masses. It is a really great
sounding word, a great sounding idea. But what they really
mean is tolerance of their own outlooks and conduct, tolerance of
their own gross immorality and depravity.

http://solitaryroad.com/a1016.html

THINK!

Do we need to extend any special effort, to be "tolerant" of those who exhibit commendable, and good behaviour ???

Do we need to extend any special effort, to be "tolerant" of the upright, the moral, the good person ???

Do we need to extend any special effort, to be "tolerant", towards those who exhibit;
integrity in their dealings with others, ???
fidelity and faithfulness towards others [who have placed trust in them], ???
honesty in their dealings with others, ???
justness in their dealings towards others, ???
fairness in their dealings with others, ???

No.

It is only those whose behaviour could be deemed to be bad, and contemptible, and immoral, who need to seek to engender the tolerance of others, towards themselves.

And this is what 'humanists' are teaching us, and our children, that we [society] should be tolerant of wickedness.

+++

And, it is only those who are immoral and depraved, who would seek a society where the 'norm' is, that others must, or should, accept their immoral behaviour.

And for the morally wicked person, a "socially just" society, is one without 'bias' or 'discrimination'.

Dictionary;

discrimination = =
1 the action of discriminating against people.
2 recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another. good judgement or taste.

To obtain "social justice" the morally wicked will push for anti-'discrimination' laws.

But a society which has abandoned all discernment between, what is morally good behaviour, and what is morally evil behaviour, is not a superior society, imo.

The depraved and the wicked want a society where;
It is no longer socially acceptable to discern between, what is morally good behaviour, and what is morally evil behaviour.
It is no longer socially acceptable to publicly express "intolerance" towards what is morally evil behaviour.
It is now only socially acceptable and 'politically correct' to publicly express "tolerance", towards what was once deemed to be morally unacceptable behaviour.

The depraved and the wicked want a society where everyone must be counted as equal, no matter their individual merit, or lack of, no matter their individual good behaviour, or lack of.

They agitate, not [particularly] against real injustice, but [particularly] against the 'injustice' of the advancement of those who have achieved their advancement through personal merit.

Today, in our society, "tolerance" of what would normally be seen as morally unacceptable behaviour, is acceptable behaviour.
Whereas, anyone who expresses support for the moral code which is promoted in the Bible, is an intolerant 'bigot', and a bad and 'intolerant' person.

Does anyone recognise that some sort of moral inversion has happened here ?

Today, "tolerance" is the watchword, the slogan, of the morally corrupt.

+++

I'm thinking of giving the OzPol forum a miss for a while, and have a break for a while.

And i think that will please some people. Wink

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #12 - Oct 14^th, 2011 at 3:23pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 10:02am:

I'm thinking of giving the OzPol forum a miss for a while, and have a break for a while.

And i think that will please some people. Wink

No! Don't do it. Stand up for your principles. I for one may not agree with everything you say, but everybody has their own unique window on the universe. I appreciate your input.

If you take away the elements of disagreement, you take away the interest in a discussion. I value those with diametrically opposed views to my own, because they serve to challenge my own views. Pet theories can have a nasty habit of turning vicious and biting you in the posterior.

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« Last Edit: Oct 14^th, 2011 at 3:30pm by muso »

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Emma

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #13 - Oct 16^th, 2011 at 12:08am

'It is now only socially acceptable and 'politically correct' to publicly express "tolerance", towards what was once deemed to be morally unacceptable behaviour.

The depraved and the wicked want a society where everyone must be counted as equal, no matter their individual merit, or lack of, no matter their individual good behaviour, or lack of.' - Yadda

I'm a bit confused upon reading this thread, i have to admit.
Yadda - you often quote biblical text, so I suppose you are NOT an atheist.

And yet here (see above quote of your words) you deny the words of the Bible. Do you not?
Aren't we told to believe the Christian ideals of equality and tolerance. Of forgiveness??
I see nothing wrong with tolerance - - which to me means people may choose to be devout, or not, ...and everything in between. So what IS your prob ??

Think you should settle down old fella - or you'll have a heart attack. Sad

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live every day

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muso

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Re: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids
Reply #14 - Oct 16^th, 2011 at 7:52am

Amadd wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 7:20am:

I'd say that it all means nought unless you act upon your convictions.

Kids mimic actions, they don't usually try to decifer and philosophise the inner thoughts, purpose and being of the parent. Especially when the parent can't even do it themselves.
Most parents overrate themselves IMO. Essentially, a parent's thoughts and intentions are useless to a child. Those things are personal and individual developments where the parent should rejoice and relax upon their lack of influence in that department.
Eventually, the child will realise that you are full of sh!t.

Yep. The late Steve Jobs summed it up rather well. It's worth reading the whole transcript, but there is an extract below.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html

Quote:

Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

He was talking about work, but it applies as a general principle too.

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