Australian Politics Forum - Christians Rampage Through Cairo

falah Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3162	Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo Reply #90 - Oct 17^th, 2011 at 7:15am Is that the best argument you can come up with? Disappointing.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #91 - Oct 17^th, 2011 at 2:15pm

falah wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 11:21pm:

The word "stoning" is not mentioned in the verse, but is referred to with the word "punishment". Part of the job of a prophet is to explain the scriptures to the people. Prophet Muhammed did this by ordering the stoning of the married adulterers. I already gave you the verse that order Muslims to obey the prophet. So stoning does not need to be directly mentioned in the Quran.

The Quran was preserved in the hearts of the companions of Prophet Muhammed, who had memorized it, and it was also written on the trunks of trees and on thin white stones. After the prophet passed away, Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq, (the companion of the Prophet and 1st of the Roshidoon Caliphs.) became concerned that too many of those who had memorised the Quran had been martyred in the wars that engulfed the Islamic state during his Caliphate. Abu Bakr conducted a meeting with remaining senior companions of Prophet Muhammed concerning the idea of compiling the entire Quran in one book so that it would be preserved and would not be lost,

"Umar has come to me and said: “Casualties were heavy among the memorisers of the Quran (i.e. those who knew the Qur’aan by heart) at the Battle of Yamaamah, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the memoriser of the Quran on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest that you [Abu Bakr] should issue orders that the Quran be collected.” I said to Umar, “How can you do something that the Prophet of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him) did not do?" Umar said, “By God, this is something good.” ‘Umar kept on urging me (to accept his proposal) until God opened my heart to it and I began to realize the good in the idea which Umar had realized.’ "

"You are a wise young man and we have a great deal of confidence in you. You used to write down the Revelation for the Prophet of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him). So you should seek out the Quran [i.e., the fragments on which Zayd had already written it during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammed] and collect it (in one book).’ By God, if they had ordered me to move one of the mountains, it would not have been harder for me than this command to collect the Quran.

This was done very soon after Prophet Muhammed passed away - and there were still many people alive who had memorised the Quran during his lifetime who could verify that the compiled Quran was true to the original.

Bukhari said the verse on stoning was revealed and read so where is it if it is not in the Quran?

Aisha says a goat ate the verse on stoning did part of the original Quran become goat poo?

Why did these hafiz who supposedly memorized the Quran leave out the verse on stoning,if they had memorized the entire Quran then why did forget the verse on stoning?

The Quran is not from Allah it is man made passed down by word of mouth like chinese whispers!

Islamic law will stone consenting adults to death for adultery yet having sexual intercourse with a donkey is ok , is this the superior morality of Islam falah?

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falah

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #92 - Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:50pm

I have never heard of this "askimam" website before, but I think you nade it up anyway becasue when I looked the "Fatwa # 19081", I didn't get the page you posts.

Instead i found this:

Fatwa # 19081 from Germany Date: Sunday, November 14th 2010
Category

Marriage (Nikah)
Title
What is the sunnah method of marriage and what rituals should be abstained from? Also, how should I reply to people who say JazakAllah?

Question

1) I will be getting married soon. I wanted to know what is the sunnah way to be adopted in marriage? What things are to be emphasized upon and what things should we abstain from? What actually is the Prophet’s sunnah and which rituals which people consider to be part of Deen should we abstain from?

2) Also how should I reply to one who says Jazakallah?

Answer

In the Name of Allāh, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.

1) Nikah is considered an act of Ibadah and is a great sunnah of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalaam). In order to attain full blessings and barakah from this great act, one should have the nikah ceremony in the closest way to the sunnah as possible. Firstly, one should conduct the nikah ceremony in the masjid, as Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalaam) advised. It is unfortunate that nowadays many people choose to conduct the nikah in halls and fancy, expensive venues. Not only is this unnecessary but it is also extravagance, about which Allah Ta’ala states:

“O children of Adam, take on your adornment at every mosque. Eat and drink and do not be extravagant. Surely, He does not like the extravagant.” (7:31)

Furthermore, many times when these venues are used, there is plenty of unnecessary intermingling of the sexes, music, dancing etc. all of which are prohibited.

Also, many people include other celebrations in the time of weddings which have no basis in Shari’ah, such as the mehndi and other functions which are from other cultures. These events also include music, dancing etc. and must be avoided. For more information please refer to the following answer of Mufti Abu Yahya:

http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=372cbb31454c71b78728df7a3642474c

2) The word JazakAllah is in essence a dua meaning “May Allah reward you”. When one gives this dua to you, respond by returning it back to them and saying “Wa Iyyak” (And to you as well) or once can say “Barak Allah” (May Allah bless you)

And Allāh knows best.

Muftī Asif Umar

Washington, DC (USA)

Concurred by:

Muftī Abrar Mirza

Chicago, IL (USA)

Under the Supervision of Muftī Ebrahim Desai (South Africa)

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=368435b931fcdcc794b5358c74e6fafa

YOu are displaying doctored pictures to try and deceive people on Ozpolitics.

You should be banned for such deceptive practices.

You have and all other posters emanating out of the same IP address have lost all credibility

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« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:55pm by falah »

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Soren

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #93 - Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:13pm

falah wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

I have never heard of this "askimam" website before, but I think you nade it up anyway becasue when I looked the "Fatwa # 19081", I didn't get the page you posts.

Instead i found this:

Fatwa # 19081 from Germany Date: Sunday, November 14th 2010
Category

Made you look, though, didn't it, galah. You wouldn't know by your own wits whether something like this is true islamic ruling or a hoax. So unfathomable by mere reason are the rules and twists of Islam that a Muslim can';t be sure hethr something like this would be advised by a 'scholar' or not.
You thought you'd better check.

Is this a true story?

"According to Islamic tradition, or Hadith, breast-feeding establishes a degree of maternal relation, even if a woman nurses a child who is not biologically hers. In his fatwa, Dr Atiya, the head of al-Azhar's Department of Hadith, said such teachings could equally apply to adults. He said that if a woman fed a male colleague "directly from her breast" at least five times they would establish a family bond and thus be allowed to be alone together at work. "

Yes it is.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #94 - Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:59pm

falah wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

I have never heard of this "askimam" website before, but I think you nade it up anyway becasue when I looked the "Fatwa # 19081", I didn't get the page you posts.

You should be banned for such deceptive practices.

You have and all other posters emanating out of the same IP address have lost all credibility

I have use askimam before when he ruled a muslim woman cannot date a non muslim man.

I took a screenshot of the fatwa,if it has been changed that came from askimam not me.

What does the Quran say about having sex with animals falah?

Can you cite a verse from the Quran that prohibits you from having sex with animals?

Abu Dawud 38:4450- There is NO prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal

More on muslims porking animals here-
http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Bestiality

Here is an Iraqi caught having sex with his donkey-

As we can see Islam will stone people to death for adultery yet having sex with animals is Ok under Islamic law.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #95 - Oct 18^th, 2011 at 8:18am

This is what the Quran says about having sex with animals-
Quote:

.

.

The Quran specifies punishments for sex outside of marriage,death to gays yet Allah says nothing about having sex with animals.

img269.imageshack.us/img269/484/goatboy.jpg

Islamic law will stone consenting adults to death for adultery yet having sex with animals is ok.

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falah

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #96 - Oct 18^th, 2011 at 10:07pm

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:13pm:

falah wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

I have never heard of this "askimam" website before, but I think you nade it up anyway becasue when I looked the "Fatwa # 19081", I didn't get the page you posts.

Instead i found this:

Fatwa # 19081 from Germany Date: Sunday, November 14th 2010
Category

Made you look, though, didn't it, galah. You wouldn't know by your own wits whether something like this is true islamic ruling or a hoax. So unfathomable by mere reason are the rules and twists of Islam that a Muslim can';t be sure hethr something like this would be advised by a 'scholar' or not.
You thought you'd better check.

It is a fake story. I wanted to prove it was fake by going directly to the website and getting the url for the fatwa number put on the fake fatwa, so that everybody could easily click on it and see that it was fake.

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:13pm:

Is this a true story?

"According to Islamic tradition, or Hadith, breast-feeding establishes a degree of maternal relation, even if a woman nurses a child who is not biologically hers. In his fatwa, Dr Atiya, the head of al-Azhar's Department of Hadith, said such teachings could equally apply to adults. He said that if a woman fed a male colleague "directly from her breast" at least five times they would establish a family bond and thus be allowed to be alone together at work. "

Yes it is.

It is incorrect

According to orthodox scholars breastfeeding an adult would not establish maternal relations:

"Breastfeeding by an adult does not have the effect of making him a mahram (close family member), because the breastfeeding that has that effect is five breastfeedings or more within the first two years of life before weaning. Breastfeeding by an adult does not have that effect..."

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen
Fataawa Islamiyyah, 3/338. "

and the former mufti of Saudi Arabia, Ibn Baz, issued a similar fatwa.

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Soren

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #97 - Oct 18^th, 2011 at 10:37pm

Well, you'd better ring Dr Atiya, the head of al-Azhar's Department of Hadith.

Talking to Muslims is like going back to the 11th century via the fooking internetz.

"Imam, I am a 53 year old authority figure, kinda like a prophet, in the accounts payable department of a large multicultural enterprise. Can I be breastfed by my 25 year old lady colleague when everyone else has left the builing?"

"Well, lemme see....There are various scholarly interpretations of this situation... The guy in Cairo says yes, the guy in Riyadh says maybe, tell me more.... So who is this lady colleague? Do you rmember her breastfeeding you 5 times bfore you turned 2? Because if yes, yes - if no, then maybe. How big are her... I mean is she related to you? "

And so on, in a scholarly fashion, for centuries.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #98 - Oct 19^th, 2011 at 12:24pm

falah wrote on Oct 18^th, 2011 at 10:07pm:

It is a fake story. I wanted to prove it was fake by going directly to the website and getting the url for the fatwa number put on the fake fatwa, so that everybody could easily click on it and see that it was fake.

Askimam must have overwritten the fatwa with another its pretty easy to do.

I took a screenshot of it and posted in on several other forums in the USA, maybe some muslim advised askimam to change it,it did cause many laughs for the kuffar while offending a few muslims.

Its pretty easy to refute it if it isnt true falah all you have to do is post a verse from the Quran saying sex with animals is haram.
This is what the Quran says about having sexual intercourse with animals-
Quote:

Nothing ,zip ,zilch.
The Quran is clear that unmarried consenting adults who have sex should receive 100 lashes yet why does it say nothing about sex with animals?
http://quran.com/24/2

You could cite something from the hadith that says sex with animals is haram if you want to refute this-
Abu Dawud 38:4450- There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal

There you go umarried consenting couples are to be flogged 100 times for sex outside of marriage yet having sex with an animal has no prescribed punishment.

What religion allows you to beat your wife (Quran 4:34) and have sex with your pet goat - Islam

Falah- all you have to do is produce verses from the Quran or hadith that clearly say sex is haram with animals to refute this...

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falah

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #99 - Oct 19^th, 2011 at 5:15pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Askimam must have overwritten the fatwa with another its pretty easy to do.

I took a screenshot of it and posted in on several other forums in the USA, maybe some muslim advised askimam to change it,it did cause many laughs for the kuffar while offending a few muslims.

Or you photoshopped it which seems much more likely.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Its pretty easy to refute it if it isnt true falah all you have to do is post a verse from the Quran saying sex with animals is haram.

So if we apply that logic to every organisation...MacDonalds Corporation has no specific policy in regard to animal sex - does that mean MacDonalds supports animal sex. Stupid argument.

Quote:

You could cite something from the hadith that says sex with animals is haram if you want to refute this-
Abu Dawud 38:4450- There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal

Once again you expose your ignorance. That is not a hadeeth. It is the opinion of a Muslim scholar, Ibn Abbas, who gives his opinion that there is no specified punishment for the crime - but that does not mean that a judge cannot impose a punishment. It means a judge has some freedom in imposing a punishment of his choice. It does not infer that there is no punishment at all.

Quote:

There you go umarried consenting couples are to be flogged 100 times for sex outside of marriage yet having sex with an animal has no prescribed punishment.

Do you know what prescribed means? It means there is no set punishment. A judge can impose a punishment in this case such as a jail term.

Quote:

What religion allows you to beat your wife (Quran 4:34) and have sex with your pet goat - Islam

Quote:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4596/dctyer.jpg

I truly believe this is something that you or somebody else has photoshopped. The number given does not correspond to the fatwa on the website.

Quote:

Falah- all you have to do is produce verses from the Quran or hadith that clearly say sex is haram with animals to refute this...

The Prophet is also reported to have said : Among those whom God will not look at (with mercy) on the Day of Resurrection, and to whom He will say, "Enter the Fire (of Hell) along with those who enter," the Prophet counted the following: The active and the passive partners in homosexuality; the one who has sex with animals; the one who is married to a woman and her daughter at the same time; and the one who masturbates regularly, unless they repent and reform. <Tirmidhi>

Verily,God enjoins Justice and perfection in religion [i.e. to be patient in performing your duties to God, totally for God's sake and in accordance with the legal ways of the Prophet in a perfect manner], and giving (assistance) to kith and kin (i.e. all that God has ordered you to give them e.g., wealth, visiting, looking after them, or any other kind of help, etc.): and forbids indecency (i.e illegal sexual acts, etc.), and evil-doing, and all kinds of oppression). He admonishes you, that you may take heed.
The Quran, an-Nahl, 16:90

We were with the Prophet while we were young and had no wealth whatsoever. So God’s Prophet said, "O young people! Whoever among you can marry, should marry, because it helps him lower his gaze and guard his modesty (i.e. his private parts from committing illegal sexual intercourse etc.), and whoever is not able to marry, should fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual desire."
Bukhari:5066.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Reply #100 - Oct 19^th, 2011 at 7:25pm

falah wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 5:15pm: