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Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl (Read 7333 times)
Soren
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #15 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 9:51pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 18th, 2011 at 9:45pm:
Are you drunk?


No. I am Scottish.



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Baronvonrort
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #16 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 9:52pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 18th, 2011 at 8:18pm:
I am familiar with Nujood's story. She's from a poor village and her father and abuser were ignorant pigs.

However, you should remember that it was a Muslim woman who advied her to go to court to appeal for help after she ran home. It was a Muslim judge who noticed her and took up her case. It was also a Muslim who defended her, and yet again another Muslim who allowed the divorce.

Just like it's Muslim activists fighting the ignorance that encourages child brides. Out of all the people I know in the Muslim community, only one was married at an early age. She was thirteen and she's now in her 40s.

Falah, just because it happens in England doesn't make it okay. I have a nine year old daughter and I would quite calmly kill anyone who thought about touching her.



What about the saudi child brides Annie?
One of the 5 pillars of Islam is Hajj where do you go for that?

You did not answer my hypothetical question-
You have been married twice,both your husbands have died happy with you which means you can enter Paradise.
Which husband do you get in the afterlife the first or the second?
Dont give me "it will be allah's will" tell me which one you will share with all those houris from the wisdom in Islamic texts?

Interesting spin about Nujood and yes there are muslims and kuffar who find child brides repulsive.
Quote:
San'a Yemen
Some of Yemen's most influential Islamic leaders have declared supporters of a ban on child brides to be apostates

More here-http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989034/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/yemeni-cle...
The Yemeni clerics are saying if you oppose child brides you are an apostate!
Google "apostates oppose child brides" for more.

I like the statutory rape laws in the west that throw grown men in jail if they have sex with a minor.

Its funny how the muslim men think child brides are OK yet the muslim women dont agree with this crap i wonder if a woman can change anything in Islam.


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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #17 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:18pm
 
Quote:
What about the saudi child brides Annie?
One of the 5 pillars of Islam is Hajj where do you go for that?



Erm...Saudi Arabia. What did I win?

Quote:
You did not answer my hypothetical question-


Pardon me. It won't happen again.

Quote:
You have been married twice,both your husbands have died happy with you which means you can enter Paradise.
Which husband do you get in the afterlife the first or the second?


Um, first one? no wait. Is this a trick question?

Quote:
Dont give me "it will be allah's will"


I wouldn't dream of it, sir.

Quote:
tell me which one you will share with all those houris from the wisdom in Islamic texts?



I don't even know my own name anymore.

Quote:
The Yemeni clerics are saying if you oppose child brides you are an apostate!


Uh-oh.

Quote:
I like the statutory rape laws in the west that throw grown men in jail if they have sex with a minor.



Yeah those suspended sentences are a real deterrent.

Quote:
Its funny how the muslim men think child brides are OK yet the muslim women dont agree with this crap i wonder if a woman can change anything in Islam.


Yeah, all the Muslim men I know oppose child brides, but I'm sure you know better. You seem to know everything.

(not a compliment)
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #18 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:23pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:18pm:
Yeah, all the Muslim men I know oppose child brides




So you don't know any Muslim scholars, then.  They are not avoiding you, I hope.

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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #19 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:33pm
 
Why would they do that?
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #20 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:36pm
 
While Islam does not permit sex prior to puberty, the Jewish understanding of the Old Testament does permit sex with 3 year-olds!


Numbers 31:17-18

Quote:
17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.



...and how do the Talmudic Rabbis interpret the words "girl who has never slept with a man"?


Quote:
Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her....


A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir.And sages say, "Three years and one day old."
And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her.
 And they are liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman...


The Tannaïtic Midrash Sifre to Numbers in §157 comments on the above quoted commandment of Moses to kill the Midianite women as well as the male children:

   "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).
   [This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable for intercourse, even when she has not slept with a man...
   But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. From here R. Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a converted girl who became a proselyte in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood."

According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations."

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« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:43pm by falah »  

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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #21 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:43pm
 
You keep defending bad behaviour by showing other bad behaviour.

In case you can't figure it out, two wrongs really don't make right.

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #22 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:49pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:33pm:
Why would they do that?


Nothing, nothing. As long as it's not unusual to know all those Muslim men but not a scholar among them (scholars have OKed 9 year old wives on account of, er.. you know, the big guy, you know, the burqa chaser previously known as 'pbuh)

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #23 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:51pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:43pm:
You keep defending bad behaviour by showing other bad behaviour.

In case you can't figure it out, two wrongs really don't make right.



Hey! What happened to the pbuh guy?? Are you dissing the authority here? He said it was OK.

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #24 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:52pm
 
Are you trying to push my buttons again?

Cos yanno, I'm already dealing with Von Rot and Falah in this thread.

Feel free to jump me on something else though.
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falah
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #25 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 11:03pm
 
The Age of Consent

Traditionally the age at which individuals could come together in a sexual union was something either for the family to decide or a matter of tribal custom. Probably in most cases this coincided with the onset of MENARCHE in girls...that is, between twelve and fourteen, but the boundaries remained fluid. In much of classical Greece this was true of both same- and opposite-sex relationships. In Republican Rome, marriage and the age of consent were initially private matters between the families involved...

...In the Islamic tradition following Muhammad, betrothal could take place earlier than PUBERTY, perhaps as early as seven, but the marriage was not supposed to be consummated until the girl menstruated and was of age. In medieval Europe, Gratian, the influential founder of Canon law in the twelfth century, accepted the traditional age of puberty for marriage (between 12 and 14) but he also said consent was "meaningful" if the children were older than seven. Some authorities said consent could take place earlier. Such a marriage would be permanent as long as neither party sought annulment before reaching puberty (12 for girls and 14 for boys) or if they had already consummated the marriage. Even if the husband had technically raped his wife before she reached puberty, the marriage was regarded as consummated. It was this policy which was carried over into English common law, and although consent was necessary, force and influence or persuasion seemed to have been permissible elements. Similarly Gratian's ideas about age became part of European civil law.

The age of consent in both English and continental law seemed to be particularly elastic when property was involved or family alliances were at stake. For example in 1564, a three year old named John was married to a two year old named Jane in the Bishop's Court in Chester, England. Though Shakespeare set his Romeo and Juliet in Verona, the fact that Juliet was thirteen probably reflects the reality in England. Her mother, who was twenty-six, calls her almost an old maid.

The American colonies followed the English tradition but the law could at best be called a guide. For example in Virginia in 1689, Mary Hathaway was only nine when she was married to William Williams... The only reliable data on age at marriage in England in the early modern period comes from Inquisitions Post Mortem which involved only those who died and left property. It appears that the more complete the records, the more likely it is to discover young marriages. Judges honored marriages based on mutual consent at age younger than seven, in spite of what Gratian had said, and there are recorded marriages of two and three year olds. The seventeenth-century lawyer Henry Swinburne distinguished between the marriages of those under seven and those between seven and puberty. He wrote that those under seven who had said their vows had to ratify it afterwards by giving kisses and embraces, by lying together, by exchanging gifts or tokens, or by calling each other husband or wife. A contemporary, Philip Stubbes, wrote that in sixteenth-century East Anglia, infants still in swaddling clothes were married. The most influential legal text of the seventeenth century in England, that of Sir Edward Coke, made it clear that the marriage of girls under twelve was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband's estate was nine...

...in the parish of Middlesex County, Virginia, there is a record of fourteen-year-old Sarah Halfhide marrying twenty-one-year-old Richard Perrot. Only in the last sentence of the register does it indicate that she was a widow....

...Of the ninety-eight girls on the ten-year register, three probably married at age eight, one at twelve, one at thirteen, and two at fourteen...Natalie Davis, whose book The Return of Martin Guerre became a movie, made her heroine, Bertrande, much older than the nine-to ten-year old girl she was when she married her missing husband.

...In the nineteenth century France issued the Napoleonic Code and many other countries, following France's example, began revising their laws. The Napoleonic Code, however, had not changed the age of consent, which remained at thirteen. When historian Magnus Hirschfeld surveyed the age of consent of some fifty countries (mostly in Europe and the Americas) at the beginning of the twentieth century, the age of consent was twelve in fifteen countries, thirteen in seven, fourteen in five, fifteen in four, and sixteen in five. In the remaining countries it remained unclear...

http://www.faqs.org/childhood/A-Ar/Age-of-Consent.html
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #26 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 11:37pm
 
Catholicism teaches that a 99 year-old man married a 12 year-old girl!

Quote:
When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, "the Lord's brother"). A year after his wife's death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place."


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm

Note: That article on Catholic Encyclopaedia obtains its information from early
Christian writing including apocryphal writings.


There does not seem to be any limit on marriage in the Bible:


In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.



The rocker Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year-old cousin legally in the US state of Arkansas.


People seem to find it plausible that a 13 year-old Juliet wanted to marry Romeo.

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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #27 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 11:46pm
 
European Christians considered marrying 8 year-old girls acceptable!


The child empress Agnes of France was the spouse of two emperors of Byzantium, the boy emperor Alexius II Comnenus, and subsequently Andronicus I Comnenus, the latter's first cousin once removed.  Agnes was born to King Louis VII of France's third wife, Adèle (or Alix) of Blois-Champagne, the daughter of Count Theobald II of Blois, in 1172. This made her the younger sister of the future French king Philip II Augustus...

According to William of Tyre, Agnes was only eight on her arrival at Constantinople, while Alexius was thirteen...Child brides, whether Byzantines or foreign princesses, were the norm rather than the exception, especially from the late twelfth century. Irene Ducaena, wife of Alexius I Comnenus, was twelve at her marriage, and empress before she was fifteen; the Byzantine princess Theodora, Manuel's niece, was in her thirteenth year when she married Baldwin III of Jerusalem; and Margaret-Maria of Hungary married Isaac II Angelus at the age of nine. Agnes's age, then, was not unusual, especially as it was customary for young engaged couples in Constantinople to be brought up together in the house of the socially superior partner...

http://www.roman-emperors.org/aggiefran.htm
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #28 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 12:32am
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:43pm:
You keep defending bad behaviour by showing other bad behaviour.

In case you can't figure it out, two wrongs really don't make right.



I am 100% with you there annie.

2 wrongs make 2 people wrong.
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Re: Ayatollah Khomeni halal sex with 4 yo girl
Reply #29 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 1:04am
 
falah wrote on Oct 18th, 2011 at 11:37pm:
Catholicism teaches that a 99 year-old man married a 12 year-old girl!


No it doesn't. Not according to the page you cited:

Quote:
the apocryphal literature is full of details, the non-admittance of these works into the Canon of the Sacred Books casts a strong suspicion upon their contents


I'm not sure if you even understand what apocrypha means. A quick summary from Wikipedia:

Quote:
The term apocrypha is used with various meanings, including "hidden", "esoteric", "spurious", "of questionable authenticity", ancient Chinese "revealed texts and objects" and "Christian texts that are not canonical".


en.wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Apocrypha

Something that is non-canonical is not binding on a follower and can be ignored. Bukhari on the other hand is canonical.

falah wrote on Oct 18th, 2011 at 11:37pm:
When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, "the Lord's brother"). A year after his wife's death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place."


This is a weak tu-quoque:

Quote:
It's interesting to note that the author brings up Mary, the mother of Jesus, and Joseph. Relying on 2nd century AD non-canonical (not considered to be Christian scripture) writings, the author states that Mary was thirteen years old when she was betrothed to the ninety-year-old Joseph. Of course, the author forgets to mention that, unlike Joseph, proof of Muhammad's pedophilia can be found within Sahih Islamic sources such as Bukari and Muslim (which are second only to the Qur'an for reliability among 90% of all Muslims), and, unlike Muhammad, Joseph is not considered the uswa hasana (perfect human). Joseph's moral character holds no importance within Christian theology. He could have been insane and it would not matter to a Christian. Moreover, according to both the Christian scriptures and the Islamic ones, Mary was a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to Jesus; therefore, her relationship with Joseph was not a sexual one until after the birth of Christ, if ever. In fact, Mary's Perpetual virginity is an essential article of faith for the majority of Christians (including the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Christians), and the same non-canonical writings which are used to gather information on Joseph and Mary's age, also confirm Mary's status as "ever virgin" (in The History of Joseph the Carpenter, Jesus says on Joseph's death "my mother, virgin undefiled"),[1] thus completely destroying the authors argument.


wikiislam(.)net/wiki/A_Refutation_of_'The_Islamophobe's_Glass_House'
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