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Households MUCH better with Labor (Read 6348 times)
skippy.
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Households MUCH better with Labor
Oct 19th, 2011 at 7:37am
 
While Abbotts plan would add 10% to household electricity prices the Labor parties policy will make households MUCH BETTER OFF,according to an independent study AND electricity providers. WHY do the rightard congo line want household to pay more? what is your agenda ,rightards,WHY DO YOU HATE AUSSIE FAMILIES so much? Quote:

THE average household will be much better off than the Gillard government has calculated after pocketing carbon tax compensation, according to independent modelling.

The National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling has found that tax cuts and higher government pension and family payments will leave households an average of $2.40 a week ahead after the carbon tax, rather than only 20˘ as estimated by Treasury.

Using more recent household expenditure data, the study found the average household would pay $8.50 a week in higher prices because of the tax (lower than Treasury's estimate) but gain $10.90 in tax cuts and benefits (more than Treasury assumed).

Unlike the Treasury modelling, the study reveals which households are winners and which losers.

It shows that low-income families with children (the bottom 20 per cent) are on average $6.30 a week ahead, middle-income families $1.30 ahead and high-income families (the top 20 per cent) are $6.30 a week worse off.

All single parents with children come out ahead, low-income earners by $5.60 a week, middle-income households by $11.80 and high-income families by 50˘.

In total 69 per cent of households will be better off, 16 per cent worse off by less than $5 a week, almost 10 per cent worse off by between $5 and $10 a week, and almost 5 per cent worse off by more than $10 a week.

According to NATSEM, pensioners will be on average $4.70 a week better off and 80 per cent of self-funded retirees will also come out ahead.

NSW households will be on average $2.60 a week in front, less than the average $3.40 gain for Queenslanders who have lower heating costs, but more than higher-earning residents of the ACT, who will be 60˘ behind on average. Victorians will benefit by $2.30 a week.

The Coalition has said that repealing the carbon tax would be its ''first order of business'' in government, and the compensation would therefore not be needed, although the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, has also promised as yet unquantified personal tax cuts.

But the Coalition's warning to business not to buy forward-dated pollution permits has drawn criticism from electricity generators, which say the inability to hedge against price uncertainty could add 10 per cent to domestic power prices.

And the Coalition's pledge to abolish the proposed $10 billion clean energy finance corporation dismayed some investors.

A spokesman for Pacific Hydro said the Coalition ''seemed intent on creating a sovereign risk for investors'' and the chief executive of the Clean Energy Council, Matthew Warren, said the proposed corporation was ''a necessary and logical institution''.

Late yesterday the shadow treasurer, Joe Hockey, seized on comments by officials from the Finance Department in a Senate estimates hearing to claim that the fund would blow a $10 billion hole in Labor's plan to return the budget to surplus.

But the officials said loans issued by the fund would hit the budget bottom line only to the extent that they were offered at a less than commercial rate of return. They had estimated about a third of the loans would be concessional, and this cost had already been factored into budget calculations, which include $944 million from the fund over the first four years.

The Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, accused the Coalition of wanting to ''destroy clean energy jobs … and see power prices go up''. But the opposition spokesman on finance, Andrew Robb, said the proposed corporation was ''a Bob Brown slush fund''



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/families-to-get-more-cash-from-carbon-scheme-20111018-1lyt8.html#ixzz1bAgFwivu
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longweekend58
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #1 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 7:59am
 
wow a whole $2.40... Im not sure I will know what to do with my new-found wealth.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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skippy.
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #2 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:03am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 7:59am:
wow a whole $2.40... Im not sure I will know what to do with my new-found wealth.

At least you'll be BETTER off under LABOR, according to electricity generators you will be 10% WORSE OFF under ABBOTT.Why do you hate aussie households so much that you want us to be 10% worse off, longwhine?? Funny, the best you can come up with is "wow 2.40" you must be embarrassed after all your lies.
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #3 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:13am
 
THE average household will be much better off than the Gillard government has calculated

I'm sure Labor has calculated this to some degree also, they weren't exactly going to come out and say we will be worse off now are they.
After all, this government isn't stupid.
But it does pay to remember they are incompetent, and history has demonstrated successful implementation of their policies has not been their forte.
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longweekend58
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #4 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:19am
 
skippy. wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:03am:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 7:59am:
wow a whole $2.40... Im not sure I will know what to do with my new-found wealth.

At least you'll be BETTER off under LABOR, according to electricity generators you will be 10% WORSE OFF under ABBOTT.Why do you hate aussie households so much that you want us to be 10% worse off, longwhine?? Funny, the best you can come up with is "wow 2.40" you must be embarrassed after all your lies.


The funny part is how the figure was arrived at... financial modelling is as accurate as weather forecasting ie OCCASIONALLY correct but usually not.

and the hilarious bit about a 10% electricity price rise while state labor govts have presided over 60-100% price rises around the country.

I have just finished running 3 weeks of modelling training courses (water) and one of the first lessons you learn is the one of 'common sense'. it is easy to create a model that looks fabulous but is complete nonsense. You need to look at your model objectively and see if the result makes any sense.

The problem with this model is simple. It doesnt make sense for one very real reason. input vs output. Just as you do in water modelling, you cant have more out than you put in. The carbon tax takes out $X yet miraculously we are going to be compensated $X+something extra?

It is nonsense. And it wil fail for the simple reason that it is VERY wrong on a conceptual basis.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #5 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:21am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:19am:
skippy. wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:03am:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 7:59am:
wow a whole $2.40... Im not sure I will know what to do with my new-found wealth.

At least you'll be BETTER off under LABOR, according to electricity generators you will be 10% WORSE OFF under ABBOTT.Why do you hate aussie households so much that you want us to be 10% worse off, longwhine?? Funny, the best you can come up with is "wow 2.40" you must be embarrassed after all your lies.


The funny part is how the figure was arrived at... financial modelling is as accurate as weather forecasting ie OCCASIONALLY correct but usually not.

and the hilarious bit about a 10% electricity price rise while state labor govts have presided over 60-100% price rises around the country.

I have just finished running 3 weeks of modelling training courses (water) and one of the first lessons you learn is the one of 'common sense'. it is easy to create a model that looks fabulous but is complete nonsense. You need to look at your model objectively and see if the result makes any sense.

The problem with this model is simple. It doesnt make sense for one very real reason. input vs output. Just as you do in water modelling, you cant have more out than you put in. The carbon tax takes out $X yet miraculously we are going to be compensated $X+something extra?

It is nonsense. And it wil fail for the simple reason that it is VERY wrong on a conceptual basis.


yes, yes, everyone is wrong except for the coalition party. Let me guess, the electrical companies were also all wrong in saying that the current Coalition stance is giving them so much uncertainty that it will inevitably push up prices?

You should be ridiculed for being so completely partisan.
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skippy.
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #6 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:58am
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:13am:
THE average household will be much better off than the Gillard government has calculated

I'm sure Labor has calculated this to some degree also, they weren't exactly going to come out and say we will be worse off now are they.
After all, this government isn't stupid.
But it does pay to remember they are incompetent, and history has demonstrated successful implementation of their policies has not been their forte.

When you read the post for THE FIRST time you'll see this is an INDEPENDENT finding.but I'm not surprised you are so embarrassed that you are trying to put a spin on it.
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skippy.
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #7 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:00am
 
You should be ridiculed for being so completely partisan
I'm sure he wrote that with a straight face, very sad really.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #8 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:06am
 
lol $2.40. Wooooo I got to frame that.

Gillard better hope she is right, because my electricity prices alone will be going up that much within the next 12-24months.

We all know how out of wack with reality and incompetent labor are, but dont let that scare you as you look forward to your grand total of a possible $2.40 a week.  Grin Grin Grin Grin
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skippy.
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #9 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:13am
 

Gillard better hope she is right, because my electricity prices alone will be going up that much within the next 12-24months.

Well according to the independent study AND electricity generators you will pay an EXTRA 10% MORE under ABBOTT, why do you support Aussie families having to pay 10% more under an Abbott government,progressives?
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #10 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:16am
 
skippy. wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:13am:

Gillard better hope she is right, because my electricity prices alone will be going up that much within the next 12-24months.

Well according to the independent study AND electricity generators you will pay an EXTRA 10% MORE under ABBOTT, why do you support Aussie families having to pay 10% more under an Abbott government,progressives?

I support getting rid of labor at any and all costs.
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skippy.
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #11 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:19am
 
progressiveslol wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:16am:
skippy. wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:13am:

Gillard better hope she is right, because my electricity prices alone will be going up that much within the next 12-24months.

Well according to the independent study AND electricity generators you will pay an EXTRA 10% MORE under ABBOTT, why do you support Aussie families having to pay 10% more under an Abbott government,progressives?

I support getting rid of labor at any and all costs.

So you support higher household costs and more pollution with no action for our children's future, at least you're honest, even tho you are a selfish moron.
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #12 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:26am
 
Why are you giving so much weight to the independent calculations over that of treasury.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #13 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:31am
 
skippy. wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:19am:
progressiveslol wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:16am:
skippy. wrote on Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:13am:

Gillard better hope she is right, because my electricity prices alone will be going up that much within the next 12-24months.

Well according to the independent study AND electricity generators you will pay an EXTRA 10% MORE under ABBOTT, why do you support Aussie families having to pay 10% more under an Abbott government,progressives?

I support getting rid of labor at any and all costs.

So you support higher household costs and more pollution with no action for our children's future, at least you're honest, even tho you are a selfish moron.

At any and all costs (so called costs). Labor are so bad, that I am willing to allow liberals to prove themselves.
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Re: Households MUCH better with Labor
Reply #14 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 9:35am
 
Actually some scrutiny of Abbott's policy in today's paper.
He doesn't stand up to well once past the slogans, but those with half a brain knew that already, & the cheer squad don't care & will scream labor lover at the journalist (although Gratten has been pretty hard on Labor for over 2 years now) but hopefully a few thinking Aussie's who have been toying with the idea it couldn't be worse might have a re-evaluation & hopefully we will see more critical analysis of Liberal policy or lack of.

Quote:
Abbott's blood oath may become bloody nuisance

TONY Abbott's blood oath to repeal the carbon tax is threatening to cause the opposition some haemorrhaging.

Now he is such short odds to become PM, the implications of the tax's repeal are being closely scrutinised by businesses - and many are worried.


Abbott faces the prospect of being embroiled in an argument over compensation for property rights. He is also accused of creating uncertainty for investment, which could increase the electricity prices he wants to contain.

These complications are apart from the challenge a Coalition government would face in getting the repeal through Parliament. On the worst scenario, that could take a double dissolution and until 2015, just as the tax turned into a trading scheme.

Abbott has warned businesses they shouldn't ''buy forward permits under a tax regime that will be closed down''. The warning is appropriate - he needs to underline the message to companies that he really is serious. He is presumably also trying to fireproof a Coalition government for a future brawl about compensation. The legislation is written in a way that creates property rights, so it is not clear how a legal battle would end up.

But Abbott's advice to avoid forward permits threatens to cost businesses money, because he is telling them not to get the best commercial deal.

That makes him vulnerable to criticism if businesses, faced with a combination of uncertainty and higher costs if they don't ''hedge'' by forward buying, put off much-needed investment because they want to be sure how the land lies.

It is claimed the repeal promise could, in the near term, have a perverse effect. The Energy Supply Association of Australia says doubt about the future carbon price will affect generators' investment and have an impact on their ability to offer fixed-price contracts,
which could put up prices for households. Abbott describes the idea that abolishing a tax is going to increase prices as ''nonsense on stilts'', but he'll have to do better than a slick phrase. He will also need to offer detail about his direct action alternative.

Well as we've seen here that will cause no end of umming & arring whilst trying to think up bullsh!t because even the 3 basics cannot be answered
1)Where
2) how many
3) how much


The practical difficulties emerging about ''rollback'' open opportunities for Labor - if it can exploit them. The carbon debate is running strongly in the Coalition's favour in the realm of ''retail'' politics. Its complex issues, throwing up problems for Abbott, are concentrated in the business world. In the general community many voters, attracted to repeal, will close their ears to the negatives - unless Labor can ram them home much better than it does most things.



http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/abbotts-blood-oath-may-become-bloody-nuis...
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