NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 20
th, 2011 at 6:51am:
jame-e wrote on Nov 19
th, 2011 at 11:42pm:
Explain how it is that you can believe that talking to families in Indonesisa will be more accurate than bone scans?
Put yourself in the position of authority and do a risk assessment on your proposal. Remember to forget about your feelings when doing so, and focus more on the matters of process and Australia's future liability if your proposition was implimented. I take it you would desire this information to be the sole means of determining age?
Firstly, let's amplify the term 'talking to families' to avoid its obvious rhetorical attempt to over-simplify.
'talking to families' includes seeking information from the minor's locale, including school records, other official records (like birth certificates), community leaders and government officials.
Secondly, whether or not 'talking to families' (in its amplified context) is the sole means is not the argument so much as it should be the primary means of verifying detainees' claims of minority. Certainly the wrist x-ray procedure is a discredited means for determining age... To rely on it is to risk subjecting the detainee to a miscarriage of justice.
However,
if it is true that, by 18, all humans' wrists have fully developed, then a wrist x-ray that indicates an undeveloped wrist would be useful in confirming that the claimant is a minor. If, however, the wrist x-ray indicates a developed wrist, then (as all experts are advising) we should presume that the claimant
may be a minor. In those instances, the Australian authorities need to be more vigilant and apply creditable methods for confirming a claimant's minority.
An attempt to over-simplify? By who?
Don't use the phrase in relation to the issue and there will be no need for amplification.
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 20
th, 2011 at 6:51am:
jame-e wrote on Nov 19
th, 2011 at 11:42pm:
My birth certificate does away with doubt.
Does it really? So, birth certificates cannot be forged then?
Nothing does away with doubt.
Yes, you are Philosophically correct. In reality though, my birth certificate does away with doubt. Or the entire debate is meaningless.
jame-e wrote on Nov 19
th, 2011 at 11:42pm:
I think though, that we can agree to disagree. Am i right to assume that you would support Australia pursuing the families of all foreign criminals who claim to be minors? You think it would give a better indication of age, therefore worth the time and costs.
I don't think the potential outcomes warrant the change.
When a just people set standards for themselves in the administration of justice... They are not committing to the cheapest solution, they are committing to the cause of justice. It would be cheaper to do away with courts altogether and rely solely on a prosecutor's gut feel... But would it be justice?
[/quote]
You call it justice, i don't. I don't think that it does anyone justice to exert such effort for foreign criminals while citizens, who we know are children, are rotting just as acutely outside our prison walls.
A line has to be drawn somewhere, surly?
Other than the quick moral fix that would be gained by releasing a few 'potential' children from prison, do you see any greater outcomes?
I used 'outcomes', but what i prefer is ramifications. You must see some future liability?
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