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Australian Hypocrisy (Read 13834 times)
freediver
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #30 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 9:51pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 6:58pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 6:46pm:
Do children make the best soldiers? Probably not, but there are thousands of child soldiers.

How can we know what motivates people smugglers to employ children and in what capacity they use them?

I think I can guess... Children are easily duped by adults, being less capable of comprehending what they're getting into... The few hundred dollars they are offered is more than their family would make, put together, in two years.

Australia then imprisons them for their naivete - and not in juvenile centres... But in adult prisons...

Australian hypocrisy... Australian arrogation of exceptionalism at work for the world to see... And we're all the lesser for it.


You think the children are kidnapped?
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #31 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 9:59pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 9:51pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 6:58pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 6:46pm:
Do children make the best soldiers? Probably not, but there are thousands of child soldiers.

How can we know what motivates people smugglers to employ children and in what capacity they use them?

I think I can guess... Children are easily duped by adults, being less capable of comprehending what they're getting into... The few hundred dollars they are offered is more than their family would make, put together, in two years.

Australia then imprisons them for their naivete - and not in juvenile centres... But in adult prisons...

Australian hypocrisy... Australian arrogation of exceptionalism at work for the world to see... And we're all the lesser for it.


You think the children are kidnapped?

No, I think they're duped into going along for the ride for US$500... And I'd bet it's not because the people smugglers give a flying sh!t whether they're imprisoned with adults if they're caught... It'd be because kids are easier to persuade than adults who have the faculties to weigh up the consequences of getting caught (like 5 years away from their family for $500).
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #32 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 10:02pm
 
Quote:
No, I think they're duped into going along for the ride for US$500


Wow. I thought you only had to offer lollies. Those Indonesian kids aren't so silly after all. Still, you better alert the authorities about this.
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #33 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 10:27pm
 
You beeding hearts make it sound like these kids are being held in maximum security playing pick up the soap with serial killers. Roll Eyes

I think you will find they are being acommodated far better in detention than they ever were in their home village.
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #34 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 10:48pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 10:27pm:
I think you will find they are being acommodated far better in detention than they ever were in their home village.

Well, I guess some of us will have to believe that... Given we've been hectoring Asia about human rights for decades.
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #35 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 10:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 10:02pm:
Quote:
No, I think they're duped into going along for the ride for US$500


Wow. I thought you only had to offer lollies. Those Indonesian kids aren't so silly after all. Still, you better alert the authorities about this.

Aww, I reckon they'd know... Don't you reckon? Given the same crap goes on here...
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #36 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:28am
 
Either these kids are kidnapped or they aren't. You can't argue it both ways.

I think they go into it knowing what the situation is, and with their family also knowing what the situation is, and that the lenient treatment of minors plays a significant role in the outcome. There is no other reason to send a child on one of these boat trips. There are more than enough dirt poor Indonesian adults looking for work, who would create a far more professional image for the smugglers. Who would want to board a leaky boat staffed by children for a dangerous voyage over open water?
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #37 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:37am
 
Quote:
I think they go into it knowing what the situation is, and with their family also knowing what the situation is, and that the lenient treatment of minors plays a significant role in the outcome. There is no other reason to send a child on one of these boat trips. There are more than enough dirt poor Indonesian adults looking for work, who would create a far more professional image for the smugglers. Who would want to board a leaky boat staffed by children for a dangerous voyage over open water?


You could very well be right but is that not still exploitation? Whatever their role, the point is that they are children and they are in prison. If we are to lock up kids it should at least be done only in the most extreme of cases. Kids working on a people smuggling boat don't cut it.
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #38 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:50am
 
Of course it is exploitation.

Working on a people smuggling boat is pretty extreme. You are working for an organised crime gang in international waters breaking the federal laws of at least two countries, putting many lives at risk. Why are you pretending it is some kind of insiginficant offence?

We need to consider the consequences of our actions. If letting children go scott free leads to more children being sent on these dangerous voyages and more of them drowning, is that a good thing?

You do not have an option that involves no child being harmed.
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #39 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:59am
 
Did you read the actual article?

Quote:
They are boys from Indonesian fishing villages who are recruited to work as cooks and deckhands on asylum seeker boats.

It is official policy not to charge children caught in this situation - they are supposed to be deported.



Quote:
One of the longest detentions involves a 16-year-old boy named Ardi.

He spent one and a half years in custody before his lawyer managed to obtain enough evidence to prove Ardi was a minor.

He was then transferred from an adult prison to an immigration detention centre in Darwin, and from there he was supposed to be sent home.

But Radio National's Background Briefing program has discovered that almost two months later, Ardi was still in detention, despite having no charges against him.



Quote:
Another one of the boys is 15-year-old Ose Lani, who accepted an offer in April last year to crew a refugee vessel headed to Ashmore Island.

He says he was in a fish market when a man approached him with a $500 job offer.

Ose Lani says he did not know the nature of the work, and only realised he was involved in transporting immigrants to Australia when he saw people boarding his boat.

"When I got to the place where the people were, I did not know what place it was. I was on the boat," he said.

"I asked myself, 'what kind of place is this?' But I just followed along. I went wherever they told to me to go."

The boat was intercepted by Australian authorities and Ose Lani was sent to a juvenile detention centre in Darwin.

There, a Department of Immigration official assessed Ose Lani to be a child.

Despite this, the Australian Federal Police charged the boy, based on a wrist X-ray analysis that it said determined the boy was over 18.

Ose Lani was then sent to an adult prison in Brisbane.

"Jail nearly killed me. That was the first and last time for me," he said.



Is that what you're arguing for?
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #40 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 10:06am
 
This smuggler is an adult, not a child.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #41 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 10:12am
 
So we are very lenient on minors?
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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #42 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 10:16am
 
Do you think putting children in adult prisons is lenient?



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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #43 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 10:46am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:28am:
Either these kids are kidnapped or they aren't. You can't argue it both ways.

You're too seasoned around here to get away with that dishonesty... I've never suggested kidnapping.. Leave the lying to the weaker posters here.

freediver wrote on Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:28am:
I think they go into it knowing what the situation is, and with their family also knowing what the situation is, and that the lenient treatment of minors plays a significant role in the outcome. There is no other reason to send a child on one of these boat trips. There are more than enough dirt poor Indonesian adults looking for work, who would create a far more professional image for the smugglers. Who would want to board a leaky boat staffed by children for a dangerous voyage over open water?

Either Australia recognises the rights of all children or it recognises the rights of none... Or are you suggesting we should recognise the special rights of white kids and not those of brown kids... Or is it that just rich kids have special rights and its poverty that disenfranchises other kids, white, brown or black? Or is it only Australian kids who have special rights?

Which is it? One rule for all... Or just for some?

And by the way... No doubt kids are not only more easily persuaded, I'd bet they're cheaper than adults.

And as for the smugglers and their desire for a "professional image"...
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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2011 at 11:15am by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: Australian Hypocrisy
Reply #44 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 10:51am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:50am:
Of course it is exploitation.

Working on a people smuggling boat is pretty extreme. You are working for an organised crime gang in international waters breaking the federal laws of at least two countries, putting many lives at risk. Why are you pretending it is some kind of insiginficant offence?

We need to consider the consequences of our actions. If letting children go scott free leads to more children being sent on these dangerous voyages and more of them drowning, is that a good thing?

You do not have an option that involves no child being harmed.



I would not allow in anyone.

From 1 - 100 years of age.

If you allow in some, then the door is ajar.

I have plenty of sympathy for people in difficult situations, it is most unfortunate, but you cannot make exceptions at any time.

One exception leads to another, and another, and another etc.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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