Australian Politics Forum - Teachers should make a demand for discipline not

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #15 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:56pm

Equitist wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:52pm:

... wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:43pm:

It's not the job of the economy to raise your children, it's the parents. And if the parents are continually going to blame 'society' or 'the economy' for their childs failings, are they ever going to improve?

How ironic, given that it is obvious that many parents have been conned by similar consumerism and 'trickle-down' economics propaganda, into supporting the 'Growth Fairy' which allows the elite few parasites to suck the rest of us dry - along with our environment!?

Seriously, why is it that you can look at the statistics of increased shareholder share of production - and the associated polarisation of income, wealth, opportunity, resources, power and debt - and put the trends down to the actions and inactions of the individuals who comprise the majority, rather than overarching systemic factors which benefit the parasitic few!?

Discipline of your children has nothing to do with the economy. How about you take some responsibility, as an example to your kids eh?

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BigOl64

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #16 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:59pm

Equitist wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:52pm:

... wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:43pm:

It's not the job of the economy to raise your children, it's the parents. And if the parents are continually going to blame 'society' or 'the economy' for their childs failings, are they ever going to improve?

How ironic, given that it is obvious that many parents have been conned by similar consumerism and 'trickle-down' economics propaganda, into supporting the 'Growth Fairy' which allows the elite few parasites to suck the rest of us dry - along with our environment!?

Seriously, why is it that you can look at the statistics of increased shareholder share of production - and the associated polarisation of income, wealth, opportunity, resources, power and debt - and put the trends down to the actions and inactions of the individuals who comprise the majority, rather than overarching systemic factors which benefit the parasitic few!?

Thank God, for a minute there I thought you were going to mention something about personal responsibility and self reliance.

Having 'the economy' as a all round scape goat for every personal action is kinda cool, might hafta try that next time I get caught speeding or crossing the street agains the lights.

"Yes officer I agree, but it's not my fault, I was adversely affected by the economy as a child and it caused me to behave this way, bloody consumerism".

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not Reply #17 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 2:07pm Quote: Discipline of your children has nothing to do with the economy. It does if you want other people to do it for you.
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #18 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 2:43pm

Equitist wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 10:04am:

FFS, those of you who advocate the use of the cane seem to forget that it was mostly the same kids who got caned throughout their school years!

These kids, despite their apparent arrogance, antagonism and disruptiveness, had low self esteem and poor self-control - and were often the victims of abuse and neglect outside of school! They needed psycho-social guidance to break the cycle of their own self-defeating thought processes and behaviours - not a physical thrashing!

It is possible that corporal punishment was somewhat of a deterrent for those on the margins of so-called 'acceptable' behaviour - but it did diddly-swat to help those who frequently received the most violent physical punishments assaults!

Moreover, I guarantee you that, if someone looked into the broader lives of those who were most often and most harshly-caned, there would be a strong correlation with drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence and other abusive and neglect processes - which would make schools complicit reinforcers and perpetrators of that pre-existing child abuse!

As for those who happily wielded the cane and the ruler: they were self-righteous and sadistic control freaks, from whom we ought to have protected our children in the first instance!

Yeah about 10% of children fall into the category you describe the other 90% just want to see how far they can push it.
Caned once, good children after as they know & respect the boundaries.
However in our worry over stiffling poor Johnies creativity we no longer set boundaries for kids, it's open slather & then we blame the teachers for poor outcomes forgetting it's probably our kid & it's disruptive behaviour that is not checked for fear of god knows what, behind & responsible for those poor outcomes in the 1st place.
But hey all kids are angels & all teachers are violence loving psycho's

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not Reply #19 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 2:47pm chicken_lipsforme wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:49pm: If we cant have the little swine flogged, can we at least bring back the 'stocks'. Children are crying for discipline today. Hmmm Looking extremely attractive today Chook
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olde.sault

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #20 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 2:52pm

Equitist wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 12:11pm:

olde.sault wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 12:01pm:

Why do you face facts?

Was there that as much crime in the days of strict discipline at school?

I don't remember youngsters being snatched off the streets, don't even remember the word "paedophile"

Teachers weren't attacked, there was always bullying but not to the extent when kids are ambulanced to a hospital!

People answered the knock on the door and many hadn't even locked their front door. . .

You mean to say that without the cane we have a better society?

Ha - ha-ha!

Sorry, Salty, but you've got the wrong end of the stick there, if you think that our broader society economy is doing anything to teach our kids self-discipline!

Seriously, how could any of the pervasive culture of wanton materialism - and associated insidious marketing assaults on a child's self-esteem (i.e. you're not good enough if you don't look like this, if you don't have that) - be undone by a few cuts of a cane or a ruler!?

I know that the cane had deterred some bad behaviour and as far as I can remember, the incorrigible preferred the cane to writing lines during the lunch hour.

Anyone who has lived as long as I would know the conditions of yesteryear to that of today.

There was a time when I (a woman) could travel by train to the city at night and get home safely.

At the time blokes had tried a pick-up but I ignored them and they hadn't persevered.

OS

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cods

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #21 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:17pm

... wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:56pm:

Equitist wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:52pm:

... wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:43pm:

It's not the job of the economy to raise your children, it's the parents. And if the parents are continually going to blame 'society' or 'the economy' for their childs failings, are they ever going to improve?

How ironic, given that it is obvious that many parents have been conned by similar consumerism and 'trickle-down' economics propaganda, into supporting the 'Growth Fairy' which allows the elite few parasites to suck the rest of us dry - along with our environment!?

Seriously, why is it that you can look at the statistics of increased shareholder share of production - and the associated polarisation of income, wealth, opportunity, resources, power and debt - and put the trends down to the actions and inactions of the individuals who comprise the majority, rather than overarching systemic factors which benefit the parasitic few!?

Discipline of your children has nothing to do with the economy. How about you take some responsibility, as an example to your kids eh?

nem does have a few points but again as per usual too simplistic in finding somewhere to put the blame.... they have a need to do that I fear..

just because you happen to be brilliant and in fact end up making megabucks....doesnt mean you are a to blame for the way society allows us to go...

to be honest I find a lot of the way I am spoken too on here rubbing off on myself... I wouldnt dream of saying some of the things I say to someone that I was disagreeing with face to face.. It wouldnt occur to me.. yet on here I find my back going up and thinking how bloody dare you...

its actions.. that matter I fear... we are all too busy to day to teach kids the basics they need to get through life... and I dont mean the ABC...

I mean respect.concideration.manners.be reliable.take care of each other..

thats all gone by the board..

now its push and shove get in first at all costs.

gimmee gimmee gimmee society.

if we think for one moment we can bash commonsense and good behaviour into children then we sure as hell have gone wrong somewhere..

lets face it even our armed services have trouble with descipline these days..

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Sappho

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #22 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:26pm

cods wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 9:54am:

well not sure about the cane..not these days olde...violence begets violence more so now than it ever did..

Did you know Cods that not a day has gone by in the history and pre history of humanity that has been without war somewhere in the world, that has been without violence somewhere in the world.

So please do not tell me that we are more violent than our history dictates... that would be a furfhy... and a big one at that.

The real issue here is that there is less respect for ourselves and others than that which has been the case in our immediate history of the past 100 years or so. The real issue is that there is less moral consequence given to ourselves and others than that which has been the case in the past 100 years or so.

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"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."

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cods

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #23 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:32pm

Sappho wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:26pm:

cods wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 9:54am:

well not sure about the cane..not these days olde...violence begets violence more so now than it ever did..

Did you know Cods that not a day has gone by in the history and pre history of humanity that has been without war somewhere in the world, that has been without violence somewhere in the world.

So please do not tell me that we are more violent than our history dictates... that would be a furfhy... and a big one at that.

The real issue here is that there is less respect for ourselves and others which has been the case in our immediate history of the past 100 years or so. The real issue is that there is less moral consequence given to ourselves and others which has been the case in the past 100 years or so.

well history really....I was really referring to our general demeaner on the streets these days...I go back to when we coul sleep with our doors open.... and that was in this country..I can remember walking down the streets late at night almost no st lighting.. without fear..I remember if you lost something it would more than likely end up at the local police station.

now Sydney has drive by shooting everynight...it wont be long before it comes to a town near you.

its very hard today to bring kids up well.. too much TV and outside influence I am afraid..I wouldnt know where to start..

but caning no I wont go there..btw I did get it once..

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not Reply #24 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:34pm ell the truth one of the biggest problems today is facebook and things like that..I dont think we have even begun to see the damage that will cause.
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barnaby joe Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1992 euchareena	Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not Reply #25 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:41pm i think you can discipline kids without having to beat the crap out of them.
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barnaby joe Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1992 euchareena	Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not Reply #26 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:41pm cods wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:34pm: ell the truth one of the biggest problems today is facebook and things like that..I dont think we have even begun to see the damage that will cause. uh explain
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barnaby joe Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1992 euchareena	Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not Reply #27 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:42pm some kids are just incorrigble pieces of sh1t though that are never going to be of any value to anybody at all regardless ofw hat you do to them.
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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #28 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:44pm

cods wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

Sappho wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:26pm:

cods wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 9:54am:

well not sure about the cane..not these days olde...violence begets violence more so now than it ever did..

Did you know Cods that not a day has gone by in the history and pre history of humanity that has been without war somewhere in the world, that has been without violence somewhere in the world.

So please do not tell me that we are more violent than our history dictates... that would be a furfhy... and a big one at that.

The real issue here is that there is less respect for ourselves and others which has been the case in our immediate history of the past 100 years or so. The real issue is that there is less moral consequence given to ourselves and others which has been the case in the past 100 years or so.

well history really....I was really referring to our general demeaner on the streets these days...I go back to when we coul sleep with our doors open.... and that was in this country..I can remember walking down the streets late at night almost no st lighting.. without fear..I remember if you lost something it would more than likely end up at the local police station.

now Sydney has drive by shooting everynight...it wont be long before it comes to a town near you.

its very hard today to bring kids up well.. too much TV and outside influence I am afraid..I wouldnt know where to start..

but caning no I wont go there..btw I did get it once..

Thats all BS. Crime rates have decreased in the last 20 years.

Blame your shock-jocks for putting the (unjustified) fear into you.

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Sappho

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Re: Teachers should make a demand for discipline not
Reply #29 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:56pm

cods wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

Sappho wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 3:26pm:

cods wrote on Nov 7^th, 2011 at 9:54am:

well not sure about the cane..not these days olde...violence begets violence more so now than it ever did..

Did you know Cods that not a day has gone by in the history and pre history of humanity that has been without war somewhere in the world, that has been without violence somewhere in the world.

So please do not tell me that we are more violent than our history dictates... that would be a furfhy... and a big one at that.

The real issue here is that there is less respect for ourselves and others which has been the case in our immediate history of the past 100 years or so. The real issue is that there is less moral consequence given to ourselves and others which has been the case in the past 100 years or so.

well history really....I was really referring to our general demeaner on the streets these days...I go back to when we coul sleep with our doors open.... and that was in this country..I can remember walking down the streets late at night almost no st lighting.. without fear..I remember if you lost something it would more than likely end up at the local police station.

now Sydney has drive by shooting everynight...it wont be long before it comes to a town near you.

its very hard today to bring kids up well.. too much TV and outside influence I am afraid..I wouldnt know where to start..

but caning no I wont go there..btw I did get it once..

Again Cods... you are speaking to a lack of moral consequence and respect... but not to violence.

Humans have and will always be violent. It is as much a part of our nature as is love.

During this time of open doors and safe night walks, there was violence and crime... did you know that? Their were gangs too... shock! horror!

That criminal element that existed then, still exists today... and their crime and violence is perpetrated against other criminals and associates of criminals... just as it was then.

And whilst it may have been the case in your time that you could walk the streets at night... it is equally true that there was less car ownership and a tradition in australia of talking a walk after dinner... so that the streets were safer because their were people all about taking their daily constitutional.

This locking of doors jazarooney has been born of a fear industry that likes to make big bucks at your expense.... and not born of reality. People have been trained to fear and as a result create secure castles for themselves, with deadlocks... alarms... even video in some cases. Nice little profit making business is the security business.

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