Australian Politics Forum - Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!

Verge

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #135 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:12pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:34am:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:29am:

Those people all would have paid tax on their income from speaking engagements and business enterprises.

Nothing new there nail.

you are full of it.

Quote:

Like all religions, the Pentecostals have a big advantage over the commercial world in that they do not have to pay tax, they do not file tax returns, they get government concessions and grants, much of their workforce is voluntary so they have relatively small wage bills, and there is little accountability and transparency about what they do or how they spend the money.

It is these tax breaks, the millions of dollars rolling in the doors of these churches, and the lack of accountability, that is fuelling a growing body of critics.

“Many of these ministers have made themselves multi-millionaires. They are no more than business magnates who benefit from the tax-free status of corporations that they lead. They are not ‘pastors’ but business managers who have cashed in on a loophole in the Western governmental tax system.”

False reporting, the Church cannot just give the money over to the Pastors without the Pastor incurring some tax liability.

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...

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #136 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:15pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:10pm:

... wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:56am:

Grey wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:42am:

... wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:39am:

Grey wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:36am:

Churches should be fined for false advertising and banned as a health hazard. At the least 'branding' should be banned and nobody should be allowed to pray within a 100 metres of anybody else. The dangers of passive preying should be publicised. Think of the children.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Stop praying on the sick and gullible. Grin

What's your problem with the church? Lots of good comes from giving its members a moral compass and a group identity. Sure, it's based on lies, but so is leftist ideology - I don't see you complaining about THEM proselytizing, and that's 100x more widespread.

well we can't forget about the good that came out of the lies about the weapons of mass deception in Iraq. Been to Iraq lately for a holiday Wink

Was it the church that invaded Iraq?

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In the fullness of time...

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30089 Gender:	Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !! Reply #137 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:18pm ... wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:15pm: Was it the church that invaded Iraq? yes the liberal church
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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #138 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:23pm

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:12pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:34am:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:29am:

Those people all would have paid tax on their income from speaking engagements and business enterprises.

Nothing new there nail.

you are full of it.

Quote:

Like all religions, the Pentecostals have a big advantage over the commercial world in that they do not have to pay tax, they do not file tax returns, they get government concessions and grants, much of their workforce is voluntary so they have relatively small wage bills, and there is little accountability and transparency about what they do or how they spend the money.

It is these tax breaks, the millions of dollars rolling in the doors of these churches, and the lack of accountability, that is fuelling a growing body of critics.

“Many of these ministers have made themselves multi-millionaires. They are no more than business magnates who benefit from the tax-free status of corporations that they lead. They are not ‘pastors’ but business managers who have cashed in on a loophole in the Western governmental tax system.”

False reporting, the Church cannot just give the money over to the Pastors without the Pastor incurring some tax liability.

It was an article written in BRW magazine.

http://hillsongchurch.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/hillsong-gods-millionaires/

maybe you are wrong. wouldn't be a first Wink

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Verge

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #139 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:30pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:23pm:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:12pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:34am:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:29am:

Those people all would have paid tax on their income from speaking engagements and business enterprises.

Nothing new there nail.

you are full of it.

Quote:

Like all religions, the Pentecostals have a big advantage over the commercial world in that they do not have to pay tax, they do not file tax returns, they get government concessions and grants, much of their workforce is voluntary so they have relatively small wage bills, and there is little accountability and transparency about what they do or how they spend the money.

It is these tax breaks, the millions of dollars rolling in the doors of these churches, and the lack of accountability, that is fuelling a growing body of critics.

“Many of these ministers have made themselves multi-millionaires. They are no more than business magnates who benefit from the tax-free status of corporations that they lead. They are not ‘pastors’ but business managers who have cashed in on a loophole in the Western governmental tax system.”

False reporting, the Church cannot just give the money over to the Pastors without the Pastor incurring some tax liability.

It was an article written in BRW magazine.

http://hillsongchurch.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/hillsong-gods-millionaires/

maybe you are wrong. wouldn't be a first Wink

It all comes down to who owns these assets. If the church owns them, there is still a fringe benefits tax liability, they cant step around that. Any income moved to them is taxed by them.

Ultimatley, if these guys die and the church owns everything, then the church keeps it.

Tax law I know.

You need to understand the law if you want to mount a case against it, so look up the taxation law definition of not for profit and dispersing of income.

You keep missing the points though, you want them taxed because you are claiming they are corporates. Thats false because of the dispersement of income.

If you had of said you want not for profits taxed, and all not for profits taxed because you think every organisation should be taxed then thats a whole other story.

But then again you would like the local cricket club with 20 players and $1000 in the bank paying tax too

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #140 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:36pm

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:30pm:

It all comes down to who owns these assets. If the church owns them, there is still a fringe benefits tax liability, they cant step around that. Any income moved to them is taxed by them.

Ultimatley, if these guys die and the church owns everything, then the church keeps it.

Tax law I know.

You need to understand the law if you want to mount a case against it, so look up the taxation law definition of not for profit and dispersing of income.

You keep missing the points though, you want them taxed because you are claiming they are corporates. Thats false because of the dispersement of income.

If you had of said you want not for profits taxed, and all not for profits taxed because you think every organisation should be taxed then thats a whole other story.

But then again you would like the local cricket club with 20 players and $1000 in the bank paying tax too

you are an apologist for bullshit artists and scammers.

The church doesn't pay GST on its takings and yet they continue to sell gold passes to heaven as well as lots of other intangible rubbish. They are a business selling rubbish and not paying any tax on their sales. It's as simple as that !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #141 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:47pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:02am:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 10:45am:

But these pastors you say are making millions from books etc, they dont have tax free status. So the ones you claiming are becoming rich, are actually paying tax anyway.

Ive already explained to you what a not for profit is, but your claim the millionaire pastors are getting a free ride is false.

You are obfuscating it.

Is the money put into the offering plate each sunday taxed or not ??

I'm not talking about the free loaders and parasites who pay themselves a wage from that money. I am talking about the money that comes through the door and put into the offering plate.

If I run a business and sell something then I have to pay GST to the Government. What GST does the church pay on its takings ??

no group anywhere in the country has to pay tax on DONATIONS given to it. nor should they. donations given to the church are not for a service or product. does the Red Cross pay tax on the donatoins you give them? no. so why shoudl the church?

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #142 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:52pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:36pm:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:30pm:

It all comes down to who owns these assets. If the church owns them, there is still a fringe benefits tax liability, they cant step around that. Any income moved to them is taxed by them.

Ultimatley, if these guys die and the church owns everything, then the church keeps it.

Tax law I know.

You need to understand the law if you want to mount a case against it, so look up the taxation law definition of not for profit and dispersing of income.

You keep missing the points though, you want them taxed because you are claiming they are corporates. Thats false because of the dispersement of income.

If you had of said you want not for profits taxed, and all not for profits taxed because you think every organisation should be taxed then thats a whole other story.

But then again you would like the local cricket club with 20 players and $1000 in the bank paying tax too

you are an apologist for bullshit artists and scammers.

The church doesn't pay GST on its takings and yet they continue to sell gold passes to heaven as well as lots of other intangible rubbish. They are a business selling rubbish and not paying any tax on their sales. It's as simple as that !!

if that is the extent of your argument then you have already failed. they dont sell any such thing.

now you just look silly and Verge has eaten you alive on tax law. simple fact. the small handful of rich pastors are so due to their own efforts, writing skill and public speaking talents.

Jeaslousy makes you look quite ugly.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #143 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:47pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 11:02am:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 10:45am:

But these pastors you say are making millions from books etc, they dont have tax free status. So the ones you claiming are becoming rich, are actually paying tax anyway.

Ive already explained to you what a not for profit is, but your claim the millionaire pastors are getting a free ride is false.

You are obfuscating it.

Is the money put into the offering plate each sunday taxed or not ??

I'm not talking about the free loaders and parasites who pay themselves a wage from that money. I am talking about the money that comes through the door and put into the offering plate.

If I run a business and sell something then I have to pay GST to the Government. What GST does the church pay on its takings ??

no group anywhere in the country has to pay tax on DONATIONS given to it. nor should they. donations given to the church are not for a service or product. does the Red Cross pay tax on the donatoins you give them? no. so why shoudl the church?

Then how much of what they take goes to charity and how much goes into their own coffers ?? Nobody knows because it is a legalised scam.

and they are not donations. people go to church to buy a gold pass to heaven. The church could easily tell people to stay at home and pray in private which is exactly what the bible says to do. But the bible bashers want you to go there and pay them otherwise you can't get your ticket to heaven Sad

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #144 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:58pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:52pm:

if that is the extent of your argument then you have already failed. they dont sell any such thing.

now you just look silly and Verge has eaten you alive on tax law. simple fact. the small handful of rich pastors are so due to their own efforts, writing skill and public speaking talents.

Jeaslousy makes you look quite ugly.

then why don't they just tell people to stay at home and pray in private like it says in their own bible

they sell gold passes to heaven and fake miracle cures. They should be taxed like any other business selling stuff to the public !!

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Bobby.

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #145 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 1:20pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:52pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:36pm:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:30pm:

It all comes down to who owns these assets. If the church owns them, there is still a fringe benefits tax liability, they cant step around that. Any income moved to them is taxed by them.

Ultimatley, if these guys die and the church owns everything, then the church keeps it.

Tax law I know.

You need to understand the law if you want to mount a case against it, so look up the taxation law definition of not for profit and dispersing of income.

You keep missing the points though, you want them taxed because you are claiming they are corporates. Thats false because of the dispersement of income.

If you had of said you want not for profits taxed, and all not for profits taxed because you think every organisation should be taxed then thats a whole other story.

But then again you would like the local cricket club with 20 players and $1000 in the bank paying tax too

you are an apologist for bullshit artists and scammers.

The church doesn't pay GST on its takings and yet they continue to sell gold passes to heaven as well as lots of other intangible rubbish. They are a business selling rubbish and not paying any tax on their sales. It's as simple as that !!

if that is the extent of your argument then you have already failed. they dont sell any such thing.

now you just look silly and Verge has eaten you alive on tax law. simple fact. the small handful of rich pastors are so due to their own efforts, writing skill and public speaking talents.

Jeaslousy makes you look quite ugly.

Jesus was rather fond of Rolex watches. Grin

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #146 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 1:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:52pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:36pm:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:30pm:

It all comes down to who owns these assets. If the church owns them, there is still a fringe benefits tax liability, they cant step around that. Any income moved to them is taxed by them.

Ultimatley, if these guys die and the church owns everything, then the church keeps it.

Tax law I know.

You need to understand the law if you want to mount a case against it, so look up the taxation law definition of not for profit and dispersing of income.

You keep missing the points though, you want them taxed because you are claiming they are corporates. Thats false because of the dispersement of income.

If you had of said you want not for profits taxed, and all not for profits taxed because you think every organisation should be taxed then thats a whole other story.

But then again you would like the local cricket club with 20 players and $1000 in the bank paying tax too

you are an apologist for bullshit artists and scammers.

The church doesn't pay GST on its takings and yet they continue to sell gold passes to heaven as well as lots of other intangible rubbish. They are a business selling rubbish and not paying any tax on their sales. It's as simple as that !!

if that is the extent of your argument then you have already failed. they dont sell any such thing.

now you just look silly and Verge has eaten you alive on tax law. simple fact. the small handful of rich pastors are so due to their own efforts, writing skill and public speaking talents.

Jeaslousy makes you look quite ugly.

Or could it be that they pass themselves off as "men of god" and then reap the rewards that a captive audience gives them?

Their "writing skills" are only on display for god believers.

No atheist , agnostic , buddhist , muslim or hindu ever bought their books.

Every single white supremacist has "The Turner Diaries" on his bookshelf.

That doesnt make William Pierce a skillful writer.

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Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40756 Gender:	Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !! Reply #147 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 2:06pm drat, I've never even HEARD of "The Turner Diaries" Where have i failed ?
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Verge

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #148 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 2:06pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:36pm:

Verge wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 12:30pm:

It all comes down to who owns these assets. If the church owns them, there is still a fringe benefits tax liability, they cant step around that. Any income moved to them is taxed by them.

Ultimatley, if these guys die and the church owns everything, then the church keeps it.

Tax law I know.

You need to understand the law if you want to mount a case against it, so look up the taxation law definition of not for profit and dispersing of income.

You keep missing the points though, you want them taxed because you are claiming they are corporates. Thats false because of the dispersement of income.

If you had of said you want not for profits taxed, and all not for profits taxed because you think every organisation should be taxed then thats a whole other story.

But then again you would like the local cricket club with 20 players and $1000 in the bank paying tax too

you are an apologist for bullshit artists and scammers.

The church doesn't pay GST on its takings and yet they continue to sell gold passes to heaven as well as lots of other intangible rubbish. They are a business selling rubbish and not paying any tax on their sales. It's as simple as that !!

An apoligist I am not.

I just to base my arguements on facts. If you dont bother to learn the law, how are you going to challange it?

But hey nail, letting the facts get in the way of a good story has never been your strong point.

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darkhall67 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1935	Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !! Reply #149 - Nov 11^th, 2011 at 2:08pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 2:06pm: drat, I've never even HEARD of "The Turner Diaries" Where have i failed ? That's because your general knowledge is not quite up to par.
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