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Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !! (Read 42195 times)

Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #285 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:16pm

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 11:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 6:55am:

you are missing the point - like so many others. what you aer in effect saying is that DONATIONS to a church (or anywhere else) shoudl be taxed. on what planet is that fair or reasonable or even make sense? Why should a GIFT made to a non-profit group be taxed since it was taxed originally by the earner? unless youare going to make all church giving automatically tax deductible?

Wrong, wrong, wrong! I'll repeat myself for you longy -

The donation is tax deductible to the donor. That means the donor gets their tax money back.

Meanwhile the church pays no tax on the donation because it is tax exempt.

THEREFORE NO TAX IS PAID BY ANYONE ON THAT MONEY.

Now go write that last line out 100 times until you've got it memorised.

badweekend is usually wrong on a lot of things he posts but he would rather lie low rather than admit that he was wrong Wink

Wink

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #286 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:56pm

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 11:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 6:55am:

you are missing the point - like so many others. what you aer in effect saying is that DONATIONS to a church (or anywhere else) shoudl be taxed. on what planet is that fair or reasonable or even make sense? Why should a GIFT made to a non-profit group be taxed since it was taxed originally by the earner? unless youare going to make all church giving automatically tax deductible?

Wrong, wrong, wrong! I'll repeat myself for you longy -

The donation is tax deductible to the donor. That means the donor gets their tax money back.

Meanwhile the church pays no tax on the donation because it is tax exempt.

THEREFORE NO TAX IS PAID BY ANYONE ON THAT MONEY.

Now go write that last line out 100 times until you've got it memorised.

church donations are NOT tax deductible. where do u get your ridiculously absurd information. SOME charities are tax deductible but even then donrs dont 'get their money back'. they get their marginal tax rate percetnage back. Hav you ever filled in a tax return?? ever made a charitable donation?? doesnt look like it!

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #287 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 1:00pm

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 11:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 6:55am:

you are missing the point - like so many others. what you aer in effect saying is that DONATIONS to a church (or anywhere else) shoudl be taxed. on what planet is that fair or reasonable or even make sense? Why should a GIFT made to a non-profit group be taxed since it was taxed originally by the earner? unless youare going to make all church giving automatically tax deductible?

Wrong, wrong, wrong! I'll repeat myself for you longy -

The donation is tax deductible to the donor. That means the donor gets their tax money back.

Meanwhile the church pays no tax on the donation because it is tax exempt.

THEREFORE NO TAX IS PAID BY ANYONE ON THAT MONEY.

Now go write that last line out 100 times until you've got it memorised.

you do know that NO CHARITY pays taxes on it donations dont you? even tax deductible one dont. If you had an even cursory understanding of tax law you'd know that tax deductibility of donations to registered charities is the govts way of promoting donations. and let me repeat it to you again lest you fail to understand the point: CHURCH DONATIONS ARE NOT TAX DEDUCTIBLE.
get it now?

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #288 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 1:05pm

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 11:27am:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:00am:

WHY IS IT that so few of you (other than verge) understands basic tax law? all INCOME of a church or church body is taxed as any other non-profit. they are no different in that regard to any other. But just as the Red Cross isnt taxed on money you give to them neither is the church and it would be pretty hard to make a case to support that they were. the ONLY difference that Churches have is a constitutional exemption from taxes and duties for the performance of religious observance. this is a pretty small aspect of the church function in most larger churches. all the business units etc are taxed as commercial (ie NOT non-profit) entities.

Essentially, the thread title is wrong. churches - and their employees or pastors - pay taxes just like you and me.

While we're at it, you might want to go do your own check of the tax rules longy.

Churches are classed as charities. I've already posted on this in this thread. As such, they are able to apply to the ATO for tax exemption. A tax-exempt organisation does not pay tax on income. No mention on what form of income. In fact, they don't even need to lodge a return.

It does still need to register and pay GST ... but it'd be hard to see what it would charge that GST on. For Hillsong, I guess that'd be book and DVD sales. Small beer most likely.

It also needs to deduct tax on salaries paid to employees.

Check it out yourself at http://www.ato.gov.au/nonprofit/content.aspx?doc=/content/33868.htm

churches are NOT classed as charities. A church may run a tax-exempt charity but donations to the church itself is NOT tax deductible. and commercial operations run by a church - like Hillsongs music company - is actually a fully registered and taxable PTY LTD company.

why are these things so hard for so many of you to understand? where are the complaints about Red Cross not paying tax on its donations? Because they dont.

some of you are just plain STUPID as regards tax law. You'd have to take a big step up to simply be 'uninformed'.

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #289 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 1:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 1:05pm:

churches are NOT classed as charities. A church may run a tax-exempt charity but donations to the church itself is NOT tax deductible. and commercial operations run by a church - like Hillsongs music company - is actually a fully registered and taxable PTY LTD company.

why are these things so hard for so many of you to understand? where are the complaints about Red Cross not paying tax on its donations? Because they dont.

some of you are just plain STUPID as regards tax law. You'd have to take a big step up to simply be 'uninformed'.

the redcross doesn't buy harley davidson fatboys and riverside mansions with the donations !!

and if churches are not a charity then they must be a business !!

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #290 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 1:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 1:05pm:

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 11:27am:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:00am:

WHY IS IT that so few of you (other than verge) understands basic tax law? all INCOME of a church or church body is taxed as any other non-profit. they are no different in that regard to any other. But just as the Red Cross isnt taxed on money you give to them neither is the church and it would be pretty hard to make a case to support that they were. the ONLY difference that Churches have is a constitutional exemption from taxes and duties for the performance of religious observance. this is a pretty small aspect of the church function in most larger churches. all the business units etc are taxed as commercial (ie NOT non-profit) entities.

Essentially, the thread title is wrong. churches - and their employees or pastors - pay taxes just like you and me.

While we're at it, you might want to go do your own check of the tax rules longy.

Churches are classed as charities. I've already posted on this in this thread. As such, they are able to apply to the ATO for tax exemption. A tax-exempt organisation does not pay tax on income. No mention on what form of income. In fact, they don't even need to lodge a return.

It does still need to register and pay GST ... but it'd be hard to see what it would charge that GST on. For Hillsong, I guess that'd be book and DVD sales. Small beer most likely.

It also needs to deduct tax on salaries paid to employees.

Check it out yourself at http://www.ato.gov.au/nonprofit/content.aspx?doc=/content/33868.htm

churches are NOT classed as charities. A church may run a tax-exempt charity but donations to the church itself is NOT tax deductible. and commercial operations run by a church - like Hillsongs music company - is actually a fully registered and taxable PTY LTD company.

why are these things so hard for so many of you to understand? where are the complaints about Red Cross not paying tax on its donations? Because they dont.

some of you are just plain STUPID as regards tax law. You'd have to take a big step up to simply be 'uninformed'.

List of definitions - Tax basics for non-profit organisations
Attention icon
Note: This information is part of our guide Tax basics for non-profit organisations.
Charity

A charity is an institution or fund established for a charitable purpose.

Examples of charities include:

religious institutions
aged persons homes
homeless hostels
primary or secondary schools run by churches
organisations relieving the special needs of people with disabilities
societies that promote the fine arts.

Religious institution
A religious institution is a non-profit institution operated for the public benefit to advance religion in a direct and immediate sense. Religion involves belief in a supernatural being, thing or principle and the acceptance of canons of conduct which give effect to that belief. Examples of religious institutions include:

bible colleges
churches and other religious congregations
institutions of missionaries
seminaries.

Link -
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/34228.htm
====================================
Donation Methods
Donations can be made in numerous ways. We thank you for your support and generosity towards this vision. Please do not hesitate to contact the Church Administrator regarding further information on donations.

Tax Deductible
The “Reach Community Church Building Fund” is a Deductible Gift Recipient (DGR) endorsed fund by the ATO; hence all donations over $2 are tax deductible. If you require a receipt for tax purposes, please ensure all donations are clearly identified with your name.

Link -
http://reachcc.org/?page_id=6
===========================================
Apparently, not everyone agrees with you, LW!

But, that MAY be no surprise?

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #291 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:02pm

I like this bit Wink

Wink

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 1:56pm:

Religious institution
A religious institution is a non-profit institution operated for the public benefit to advance religion in a direct and immediate sense. Religion involves belief in a supernatural being, thing or principle and the acceptance of canons of conduct which give effect to that belief. Examples of religious institutions include:

bible colleges
churches and other religious congregations
institutions of missionaries
seminaries.

The tax department gives special privilege to organizations that promote unreason as a positive virtue Cheesy

Cheesy

LOL

What hope does humanity have Sad

Sad

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Gist

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #292 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:15pm

...and that's the thing, isn't it. Which BIT of the Hillsong is a church and a charity, which BIT is tax deductible, which BIT is a business? It all depends on which BIT you want to talk about doesn't it longy?

Certainly this BIT of Hillsong is tax deductible - it says so on their letterhead:

Quote:

Hillsong Emerge 122 Eveleigh St Redfern NSW 2016 Ph: 02 9087 8222 Fax: 02 9087 8208 Email: emerge@hillsong.com
ABN 13 003 698 726. Donations $2 & over Tax Deductible T23/5/ISF435. An initiative of Hillsong Church

http://hillsong.com/resource/ShineLICENSEAGREEMENT06.pdf

"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #293 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:01pm

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:15pm:

...and that's the thing, isn't it. Which BIT of the Hillsong is a church and a charity, which BIT is tax deductible, which BIT is a business? It all depends on which BIT you want to talk about doesn't it longy?

Certainly this BIT of Hillsong is tax deductible - it says so on their letterhead:

Quote:

Hillsong Emerge 122 Eveleigh St Redfern NSW 2016 Ph: 02 9087 8222 Fax: 02 9087 8208 Email: emerge@hillsong.com
ABN 13 003 698 726. Donations $2 & over Tax Deductible T23/5/ISF435. An initiative of Hillsong Church

http://hillsong.com/resource/ShineLICENSEAGREEMENT06.pdf

and I said earlier that Churches runn tax-deductible charities. this is proving my point.

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Gist

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #294 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:06pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:56pm:

SOME charities are tax deductible but even then donrs dont 'get their money back'. they get their marginal tax rate percetnage back. Hav you ever filled in a tax return?? ever made a charitable donation?? doesnt look like it!

Did I say they get their money back?

...checking...

Why no (surprise!) I said they get their tax money back. The tax component of their donation, if you want me to spell it out in full. So I think we're agreed on this point.

You should try reading what I actually write instead of what you want me to write.

"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #295 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:19pm

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:56pm:

SOME charities are tax deductible but even then donrs dont 'get their money back'. they get their marginal tax rate percetnage back. Hav you ever filled in a tax return?? ever made a charitable donation?? doesnt look like it!

Did I say they get their money back?

...checking...

Why no (surprise!) I said they get their tax money back. The tax component of their donation, if you want me to spell it out in full. So I think we're agreed on this point.

You should try reading what I actually write instead of what you want me to write.

NO GROUP ANYWHERE has its donations taxed. why do you think they should?

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #296 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:19pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:56pm:

SOME charities are tax deductible but even then donrs dont 'get their money back'. they get their marginal tax rate percetnage back. Hav you ever filled in a tax return?? ever made a charitable donation?? doesnt look like it!

Did I say they get their money back?

...checking...

Why no (surprise!) I said they get their tax money back. The tax component of their donation, if you want me to spell it out in full. So I think we're agreed on this point.

You should try reading what I actually write instead of what you want me to write.

NO GROUP ANYWHERE has its donations taxed. why do you think they should?

because they are running a business in disguise Wink

Wink

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Gist

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #297 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:20pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

NO GROUP ANYWHERE has its donations taxed. why do you think they should?

Grin

Grin

Where did I say I wanted donations to become taxable? I don't remember saying that. A quick check didn't find any posts where I said that. Can you point me to it? Or are you confusing me with someone else?

I'm not too worried about donations. I think there are worthy cause and the status quo suits them quite well. I donate to several every year including overseas aid charities (not religion based), medical research and others. The existing arrangements suit them fine.

I think the thrust of the arguments here though is that there are groups that should not get exemptions/deductions/whatever-tax-breaks-they-can-get-via-various-structures and that Hillsong is one of those groups.

"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #298 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:12pm

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

NO GROUP ANYWHERE has its donations taxed. why do you think they should?

Grin

Grin

Where did I say I wanted donations to become taxable? I don't remember saying that. A quick check didn't find any posts where I said that. Can you point me to it? Or are you confusing me with someone else?

I'm not too worried about donations. I think there are worthy cause and the status quo suits them quite well. I donate to several every year including overseas aid charities (not religion based), medical research and others. The existing arrangements suit them fine.

I think the thrust of the arguments here though is that there are groups that should not get exemptions/deductions/whatever-tax-breaks-they-can-get-via-various-structures and that Hillsong is one of those groups.

I'll help you along there. Donations to a church are not donations to the needy. They are given by people who believe the church is trying to sell them something they can't get anywhere else. This makes the church a business which sells something and pays no tax therefore all churches should pay tax on their takings !!

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Bobby.

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #299 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:42pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:12pm:

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

NO GROUP ANYWHERE has its donations taxed. why do you think they should?

Grin

Grin

Where did I say I wanted donations to become taxable? I don't remember saying that. A quick check didn't find any posts where I said that. Can you point me to it? Or are you confusing me with someone else?

I'm not too worried about donations. I think there are worthy cause and the status quo suits them quite well. I donate to several every year including overseas aid charities (not religion based), medical research and others. The existing arrangements suit them fine.

I think the thrust of the arguments here though is that there are groups that should not get exemptions/deductions/whatever-tax-breaks-they-can-get-via-various-structures and that Hillsong is one of those groups.

I'll help you along there. Donations to a church are not donations to the needy. They are given by people who believe the church is trying to sell them something they can't get anywhere else. This makes the church a business which sells something and pays no tax therefore all churches should pay tax on their takings !!

Nail,
I think that's a bit harsh.
I do however think that churches should pay tax on all
monies collected that do not go directly to the poor.

Example:
The local parish collects 1 million dollars in a financial year.
$300,000 goes to the poor & $700,000 is spent on cars, clothes accomodation, meals
alcohol & cigarettes for priests or ministers.
The church should pay tax on the $700,000 like any other business
& their books should be open to scrutiny.

A friend of mine visited a Catholic parish once.
The priests there had a drinking cabinet with
all top shelf whisky & they smoked packets of cigarettes.
They drove free fancy cars & wore free top clothes including $400 pairs of shoes.
They had servants preparing their free dinners.
3 course free dinners every night followed by free booze!
Why do they pay no tax yet I do?
They live better than me.

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