Australian Politics Forum - Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #45 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:30pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

so how much of the 100 million per year turnover that HillSux makes actually goes to charity ??

any ideas ??

Quote:

All this growth, plus the tithing (giving 10% of pre-tax salary to the church), and not having to pay tax, is translating into prosperous churches whose leaders are flush with cash. A traditional Australian suburban church typically has fewer than 100 members and an annual budget of less than $50,000. The average Pentecostal church has revenue 10 times that, and many of the pastors have become millionaires on the talk circuit and from the sale of books and DVDs. Powell says the royalties received and money earned from speaking overseas go to these pastors, but their profile comes from the church. “It is a bit like the Pope charging for speaking engagements, and then keeping the cash,” he says.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !! Reply #46 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:39pm What are you actually unhappy about? http://myhillsong.com/financial-charter http://myhillsong.com/corporate-goverance
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Soren

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #47 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:57pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:

... wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 1:39pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 1:33pm:

Yes churches should pay tax, but they never will. They will create safe havens and tax breaks to get around it. I've seen how they operate. They develop a business and claim that it is an arm of the church so they operate tax free. They can have 20 or 30 businesses all making big profits and all running tax free.

Religion is part of the 1% that don't contribute to the country.

Ahh but do religious based charities do unpaid work that benefits society?

They do and so do non religious charities which are usually not for profit organisations.

Some religious organisations could be not for profit, but I know a lot that are not and they make huge profits without paying tax. Now if the huge profits went back into charity, good thing, but it usually goes into hoarding real estate and other investment schemes.

SO what is the difference between the profits of a religious and a non-religious charity business, Madame Resentment? All the religious organisations are fronts and none of the nonreligious are? Or what? Do you actually think - I wouldn't be surprised in the least - that non-prifit organisations, religious or not, are not subject to legal financial regulations and reporting requirement?

Reflexive, habitual stupidy like yours is not a cohesive argunment. But you wouldn't understand, would you? As long as there is a plot to sniff, you are happy.

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Uncle

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #48 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:18pm

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:22pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

And what question have you asked?

The laws are not there to ensure equality - if equality was one of your questions. In any case, the churches give salve to far more of the down and outers than the laws. And you know why? because of what the churches are. They are community organisation. The money they have is from their congregations. That means the people who freely assemble in each church. And get this - each church has a council (as seen in the Vicar of Dibley, an excellent sociological documentary, by the way, as is yes Minister). And these council decide what they do with their money. WHen they collect, they tell you what they are ccollecting for and you can look at their books!

You're barking at the wrong bloke there Fido Wink

I'm not (and others are not) bringing the work that the traditional community Churches do into disrepute.

You need to look at the original post again...

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"Julia Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term. "&&&&- The Age 20/8/10&&&&"You are not just thick - you weant to be thick. It makes you feel compssionate."&&&&- Soren

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Uncle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 688	Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !! Reply #49 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:19pm Gist wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:48pm: Is the Sanitarium company still a tax free arm of the Adventist church? Used to be. They'd probably make the Hillsong look like tiddlers. Now we're getting there...
Back to top	"Julia Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term. "&&&&- The Age 20/8/10&&&&"You are not just thick - you weant to be thick. It makes you feel compssionate."&&&&- Soren IP Logged

Soren

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #50 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:24pm

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:18pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:22pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

And what question have you asked?

The laws are not there to ensure equality - if equality was one of your questions. In any case, the churches give salve to far more of the down and outers than the laws. And you know why? because of what the churches are. They are community organisation. The money they have is from their congregations. That means the people who freely assemble in each church. And get this - each church has a council (as seen in the Vicar of Dibley, an excellent sociological documentary, by the way, as is yes Minister). And these council decide what they do with their money. WHen they collect, they tell you what they are ccollecting for and you can look at their books!

You're barking at the wrong bloke there Fido Wink

I'm not (and others are not) bringing the work that the traditional community Churches do into disrepute.

You need to look at the original post again...

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1320891655/46#46

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !! Reply #51 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:26pm The (lefty zillionaires) ACTU doesn't pay tax either .
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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #52 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:34pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

While it is clear that you hate the Church and that is your right, dont think for a moment that removing tax free status from non-profits is somehow going to enrich socieity by removing most charities and impeding the actions of those that remain.

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

and this wouldnt be possible if non-profits were taxed. Mind you, it wouldnt be needed because the CHildhood Cancer Association wouldnt exist either.

I would be ok with this if the pastor of said church didnt live a millionaires lifestyle (like hillsong).

Raising 350000 for cancer is great but if the pastor and church higherups make 1,350,000 then it's not such a great result.

Now I am one of those people with not much of a knowledge on australian tax laws but maybe someone could enlighten me.

If the tax free status of "religious" groups is abolished , but any charitable donations or outlays paid by a "religious " group is tax deductible (just like any member of society I think) would this prevent "religious" groups from doing good in society?

Or would it just prevent those unscrupulous and money hungry , millionaire lifestyle type "religious" groups from getting away with selfish profit making?

when you talk about millionarie religious people you are usually talking about probably 3 of them in total. Is it reasonable to condemn an entire group for the actions of one? If that were the case the ALP wopuld be deregistered on the basis opf some its members crimes.

and secondly, many of these 'millionaires' are so on the basis of their non-church speaking fees and book royalties. Or are we going to deny people that as well?

The tax free status of non-profits and churches has been rorted in the past that is true. But the problem with threads like this is it assumes that ALL churches rort - and they dont. Removing tax-free status of non-profits will only reduce their capacity to perform, doing more harm than good.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #53 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:38pm

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:19pm:

Gist wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:48pm:

Is the Sanitarium company still a tax free arm of the Adventist church? Used to be. They'd probably make the Hillsong look like tiddlers.

Now we're getting there...

this old furphy AGAIN? Sanitariium is non tax-exempt. they pay 30% tax on all profits juist as every other company does (except miners who pay more!). But the reason they pay no tax on profits is they make no profit (they pay the normal payrol taxes, GST and levies). They make no profit because at the end of the year all surpluses are given to a tax deductible charity.

You can pay no tax too. all you have to do is donate your entire salary minus deductions to charity - just as they do.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #54 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:39pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:34pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

While it is clear that you hate the Church and that is your right, dont think for a moment that removing tax free status from non-profits is somehow going to enrich socieity by removing most charities and impeding the actions of those that remain.

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

and this wouldnt be possible if non-profits were taxed. Mind you, it wouldnt be needed because the CHildhood Cancer Association wouldnt exist either.

I would be ok with this if the pastor of said church didnt live a millionaires lifestyle (like hillsong).

Raising 350000 for cancer is great but if the pastor and church higherups make 1,350,000 then it's not such a great result.

Now I am one of those people with not much of a knowledge on australian tax laws but maybe someone could enlighten me.

If the tax free status of "religious" groups is abolished , but any charitable donations or outlays paid by a "religious " group is tax deductible (just like any member of society I think) would this prevent "religious" groups from doing good in society?

Or would it just prevent those unscrupulous and money hungry , millionaire lifestyle type "religious" groups from getting away with selfish profit making?

when you talk about millionarie religious people you are usually talking about probably 3 of them in total. Is it reasonable to condemn an entire group for the actions of one? If that were the case the ALP wopuld be deregistered on the basis opf some its members crimes.

and secondly, many of these 'millionaires' are so on the basis of their non-church speaking fees and book royalties. Or are we going to deny people that as well?

The tax free status of non-profits and churches has been rorted in the past that is true. But the problem with threads like this is it assumes that ALL churches rort - and they dont. [highlight]Removing tax-free status of non-profits will only reduce their capacity to perform, doing more harm than good[/highlight].

How?

If they could claim any charitable outlay as a deduction , how would that limit their performance?

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #55 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:40pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 5:08pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 4:38pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 4:09pm:

And what do they do with the profits? Pay dividens on shares?

They buy more property and expand the empire.

That's right, something went wrong with feed the hungry message.

Greed and self indulgence was it?

the christian church currently feeds 40% zimbabwe. now red that again... FORTY PERCENT OF A COUNTRY.

makes your whining look pretty pathetic, doesnt it?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #56 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:41pm

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

While it is clear that you hate the Church and that is your right, dont think for a moment that removing tax free status from non-profits is somehow going to enrich socieity by removing most charities and impeding the actions of those that remain.

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

and this wouldnt be possible if non-profits were taxed. Mind you, it wouldnt be needed because the CHildhood Cancer Association wouldnt exist either.

Nobody, as far as I'm aware, has complained about not for profit organisations being tax exempt.

just churches... how convenient and typical of a religion-hating leftie.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #57 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:43pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:34pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

While it is clear that you hate the Church and that is your right, dont think for a moment that removing tax free status from non-profits is somehow going to enrich socieity by removing most charities and impeding the actions of those that remain.

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

and this wouldnt be possible if non-profits were taxed. Mind you, it wouldnt be needed because the CHildhood Cancer Association wouldnt exist either.

I would be ok with this if the pastor of said church didnt live a millionaires lifestyle (like hillsong).

Raising 350000 for cancer is great but if the pastor and church higherups make 1,350,000 then it's not such a great result.

Now I am one of those people with not much of a knowledge on australian tax laws but maybe someone could enlighten me.

If the tax free status of "religious" groups is abolished , but any charitable donations or outlays paid by a "religious " group is tax deductible (just like any member of society I think) would this prevent "religious" groups from doing good in society?

Or would it just prevent those unscrupulous and money hungry , millionaire lifestyle type "religious" groups from getting away with selfish profit making?

when you talk about millionarie religious people you are usually talking about probably 3 of them in total. Is it reasonable to condemn an entire group for the actions of one? .

The "3" of them represent the biggest growing church in australia (is it not?).

Bit of a worry isnt it?

How about we abolish the tax free exemption , allow them to claim a tax deduction on their charitable works and then those "3" (I'm sure it's more than that ) would be forced to find another way to con hundreds of thousands of people.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #58 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #59 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:47pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:40pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 5:08pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 4:38pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 4:09pm:

And what do they do with the profits? Pay dividens on shares?

They buy more property and expand the empire.

That's right, something went wrong with feed the hungry message.

Greed and self indulgence was it?

the christian church currently feeds 40% zimbabwe. now red that again... FORTY PERCENT OF A COUNTRY.

makes your whining look pretty pathetic, doesnt it?

which costs them about .1 percent of their total income and gives them carte blanche to control minds and destroy lives with their anti contraception , anti gay and pro superstitious nonsense propaganda.

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