Australian Politics Forum - Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!

longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #60 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:50pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:34pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

While it is clear that you hate the Church and that is your right, dont think for a moment that removing tax free status from non-profits is somehow going to enrich socieity by removing most charities and impeding the actions of those that remain.

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

and this wouldnt be possible if non-profits were taxed. Mind you, it wouldnt be needed because the CHildhood Cancer Association wouldnt exist either.

I would be ok with this if the pastor of said church didnt live a millionaires lifestyle (like hillsong).

Raising 350000 for cancer is great but if the pastor and church higherups make 1,350,000 then it's not such a great result.

Now I am one of those people with not much of a knowledge on australian tax laws but maybe someone could enlighten me.

If the tax free status of "religious" groups is abolished , but any charitable donations or outlays paid by a "religious " group is tax deductible (just like any member of society I think) would this prevent "religious" groups from doing good in society?

Or would it just prevent those unscrupulous and money hungry , millionaire lifestyle type "religious" groups from getting away with selfish profit making?

when you talk about millionarie religious people you are usually talking about probably 3 of them in total. Is it reasonable to condemn an entire group for the actions of one? If that were the case the ALP wopuld be deregistered on the basis opf some its members crimes.

and secondly, many of these 'millionaires' are so on the basis of their non-church speaking fees and book royalties. Or are we going to deny people that as well?

The tax free status of non-profits and churches has been rorted in the past that is true. But the problem with threads like this is it assumes that ALL churches rort - and they dont. [highlight]Removing tax-free status of non-profits will only reduce their capacity to perform, doing more harm than good[/highlight].

How?

If they could claim any charitable outlay as a deduction , how would that limit their performance?

you might do to research non-profit first. it isnt as simple as it sounds. I did so a few years ago as part of a business analysis for a non-profit group (non church).

As far as churches go the only tax-exempt status they have apart from those any non-profit has is for an taxes on goods or services for 'religous observance'. that means that all taxes, duties and GST etc on anything used for a church service is refundable. That actually amounts to not very much in the running of a church other than building. day-to-day activities are taxed just the same as everyone else.

my church has also renovated a run-down high school, renovated the 4th floor of the adelaide childrens hospital and several other projects. we also run a soup kitchen and provide free counceslling for the community plus help for the aged and disabled etc etc etc etc

and people want to complain???

There are very few rich pastors. most are paid a pittance. some are paid well and the rich ones do so from book royalties and speaking tours. why that is a problem exactly is beyond me.

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #61 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

And herein lies the difference of opinion (or ethics).

A "church " , in my opinion , DOESNT have the right to spend that 1 million dollars "extra" donations as they see fit ie funding millionaire lifestyles for its pastors .

A "church " (and here i am talking about a "christian" church) has only RESPONSIBILITIES , not rights , to do what its founder advocated .

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #62 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:40pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 5:08pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 4:38pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 4:09pm:

And what do they do with the profits? Pay dividens on shares?

They buy more property and expand the empire.

That's right, something went wrong with feed the hungry message.

Greed and self indulgence was it?

the christian church currently feeds 40% zimbabwe. now red that again... FORTY PERCENT OF A COUNTRY.

makes your whining look pretty pathetic, doesnt it?

which costs them about .1 percent of their total income and gives them carte blanche to control minds and destroy lives with their anti contraception , anti gay and pro superstitious nonsense propaganda.

well that attidude reveals what is inside your heart. not much. a group feeds forty percent of an entire country and your comment is this??

id like to know what sickness in your soul causes you to criticise those that feed the poor for... feeding the poor.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #63 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:56pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

And herein lies the difference of opinion (or ethics).

A "church " , in my opinion , DOESNT have the right to spend that 1 million dollars "extra" donations as they see fit ie funding millionaire lifestyles for its pastors .

A "church " (and here i am talking about a "christian" church) has only RESPONSIBILITIES , not rights , to do what its founder advocated .

A) you are assuming they do - and they dont.
B) you are assuming YOU have the right to decide what a group does with THEIR Money - and you dont
C) you criticise people for feeding the poor. how is your credibility going today?
D) the majority of churches run at a loss with the pastor either working for free or for a salary he could top at Maccas. But feel free to condemn everybody.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #64 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:59pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

And herein lies the difference of opinion (or ethics).

A "church " , in my opinion , DOESNT have the right to spend that 1 million dollars "extra" donations as they see fit ie funding millionaire lifestyles for its pastors .

A "church " (and here i am talking about a "christian" church) has only RESPONSIBILITIES , not rights , to do what its founder advocated .

you arent saying that at all. all you are saying is that YOU think the christian church should behave the way YOU want them to while ignoring the fact that they DO. Feed the poor. care fot the sick and the widows. THAT was Jesus command and the church does that - far better than anyone else. and until 150 years ago NO ONE else was doing it at all - just the Church. But your contribution is to criticise.

How many people in zimbabwe are you feeding? IM just feeding one.(personally) but Id bet the loudest critics on here give the least. It certainly is usually the way.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #65 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:59pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:34pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

While it is clear that you hate the Church and that is your right, dont think for a moment that removing tax free status from non-profits is somehow going to enrich socieity by removing most charities and impeding the actions of those that remain.

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

and this wouldnt be possible if non-profits were taxed. Mind you, it wouldnt be needed because the CHildhood Cancer Association wouldnt exist either.

I would be ok with this if the pastor of said church didnt live a millionaires lifestyle (like hillsong).

Raising 350000 for cancer is great but if the pastor and church higherups make 1,350,000 then it's not such a great result.

Now I am one of those people with not much of a knowledge on australian tax laws but maybe someone could enlighten me.

If the tax free status of "religious" groups is abolished , but any charitable donations or outlays paid by a "religious " group is tax deductible (just like any member of society I think) would this prevent "religious" groups from doing good in society?

Or would it just prevent those unscrupulous and money hungry , millionaire lifestyle type "religious" groups from getting away with selfish profit making?

when you talk about millionarie religious people you are usually talking about probably 3 of them in total. Is it reasonable to condemn an entire group for the actions of one? If that were the case the ALP wopuld be deregistered on the basis opf some its members crimes.

and secondly, many of these 'millionaires' are so on the basis of their non-church speaking fees and book royalties. Or are we going to deny people that as well?

The tax free status of non-profits and churches has been rorted in the past that is true. But the problem with threads like this is it assumes that ALL churches rort - and they dont. [highlight]Removing tax-free status of non-profits will only reduce their capacity to perform, doing more harm than good[/highlight].

How?

If they could claim any charitable outlay as a deduction , how would that limit their performance?

you might do to research non-profit first. it isnt as simple as it sounds. I did so a few years ago as part of a business analysis for a non-profit group (non church).

As far as churches go the only tax-exempt status they have apart from those any non-profit has is for an taxes on goods or services for 'religous observance'. that means that all taxes, duties and GST etc on anything used for a church service is refundable. That actually amounts to not very much in the running of a church other than building. day-to-day activities are taxed just the same as everyone else.

my church has also renovated a run-down high school, renovated the 4th floor of the adelaide childrens hospital and several other projects. we also run a soup kitchen and provide free counceslling for the community plus help for the aged and disabled etc etc etc etc

and people want to complain???

There are very few rich pastors. most are paid a pittance. some are paid well and the rich ones do so from book royalties and speaking tours. why that is a problem exactly is beyond me.

Again , because people who have read the life and teachings of jesus recognise that anyone claiming to act and speak and follow the example of jesus CAN NOT also be a rich person.

It's not rocket surgery.

ANY rich pastor/priest ( of the christian religion) is the same as a prostitute chastity campaigner , or a cannibal vegan proselytizer or a KKK tolerance advisor

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #66 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:02pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:56pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

And herein lies the difference of opinion (or ethics).

A "church " , in my opinion , DOESNT have the right to spend that 1 million dollars "extra" donations as they see fit ie funding millionaire lifestyles for its pastors .

A "church " (and here i am talking about a "christian" church) has only RESPONSIBILITIES , not rights , to do what its founder advocated .

A) you are assuming they do - and they dont.
B) you are assuming YOU have the right to decide what a group does with THEIR Money - and you dont

I dont have the right.

But in a christian church jesus surely does.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #67 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:04pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:59pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:34pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1320891655/30#30 date=1320915493]the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

While it is clear that you hate the Church and that is your right, dont think for a moment that removing tax free status from non-profits is somehow going to enrich socieity by removing most charities and impeding the actions of those that remain.

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

and this wouldnt be possible if non-profits were taxed. Mind you, it wouldnt be needed because the CHildhood Cancer Association wouldnt exist either.

I would be ok with this if the pastor of said church didnt live a millionaires lifestyle (like hillsong).

Raising 350000 for cancer is great but if the pastor and church higherups make 1,350,000 then it's not such a great result.

Now I am one of those people with not much of a knowledge on australian tax laws but maybe someone could enlighten me.

If the tax free status of "religious" groups is abolished , but any charitable donations or outlays paid by a "religious " group is tax deductible (just like any member of society I think) would this prevent "religious" groups from doing good in society?

Or would it just prevent those unscrupulous and money hungry , millionaire lifestyle type "religious" groups from getting away with selfish profit making?

when you talk about millionarie religious people you are usually talking about probably 3 of them in total. Is it reasonable to condemn an entire group for the actions of one? If that were the case the ALP wopuld be deregistered on the basis opf some its members crimes.

and secondly, many of these 'millionaires' are so on the basis of their non-church speaking fees and book royalties. Or are we going to deny people that as well?

The tax free status of non-profits and churches has been rorted in the past that is true. But the problem with threads like this is it assumes that ALL churches rort - and they dont. [highlight]Removing tax-free status of non-profits will only reduce their capacity to perform, doing more harm than good[/highlight].

How?

If they could claim any charitable outlay as a deduction , how would that limit their performance?

you might do to research non-profit first. it isnt as simple as it sounds. I did so a few years ago as part of a business analysis for a non-profit group (non church).

As far as churches go the only tax-exempt status they have apart from those any non-profit has is for an taxes on goods or services for 'religous observance'. that means that all taxes, duties and GST etc on anything used for a church service is refundable. That actually amounts to not very much in the running of a church other than building. day-to-day activities are taxed just the same as everyone else.

and people want to complain???

There are very few rich pastors. most are paid a pittance. some are paid well and the rich ones do so from book royalties and speaking tours. why that is a problem exactly is beyond me.

Again , because people who have read the life and teachings of jesus recognise that anyone claiming to act and speak and follow the example of jesus CAN NOT also be a rich person.

It's not rocket surgery.

ANY rich pastor/priest ( of the christian religion) is the same as a prostitute chastity campaigner , or a cannibal vegan proselytizer or a KKK tolerance advisor

u might try actually reading the Bible instead of one person's interpretation. you are actually dead wrong - which is fitting given that you are only grinding your axe against the Church AGAIN.

no comment on feeding milions of people? of course not. we must fixate on Brian Houston whos church has sold more music DVDs than any group or band in the country and a man whose books have sold millions of copies? How evil! We must not have sucess! we must be poor and ineffectual!!! the hungry must die and the hurting must suffer all so that a few sick people can ensure the church isnt successful.

lame.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #68 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:05pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:02pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:56pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

And herein lies the difference of opinion (or ethics).

A "church " , in my opinion , DOESNT have the right to spend that 1 million dollars "extra" donations as they see fit ie funding millionaire lifestyles for its pastors .

A "church " (and here i am talking about a "christian" church) has only RESPONSIBILITIES , not rights , to do what its founder advocated .

A) you are assuming they do - and they dont.
B) you are assuming YOU have the right to decide what a group does with THEIR Money - and you dont

I dont have the right.

But in a christian church jesus surely does.

It is a bit presumptuous to speak on Jesus' behalf if you dont read what He wrote, isnt it?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #69 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:06pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:56pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

And herein lies the difference of opinion (or ethics).

A "church " , in my opinion , DOESNT have the right to spend that 1 million dollars "extra" donations as they see fit ie funding millionaire lifestyles for its pastors .

A "church " (and here i am talking about a "christian" church) has only RESPONSIBILITIES , not rights , to do what its founder advocated .

A) you are assuming they do - and they dont.
B) you are assuming YOU have the right to decide what a group does with THEIR Money - and you dont
C) you criticise people for feeding the poor. how is your credibility going today?
dy.

No I'm not.

I'm criticising an organization that claims to follow the teachings of jesus christ for spending .1 percent of their wealth ( WEALTH!!! In a "CHRISTIAN" organisation!!! unbelievable) on feeding the poor when nothing short of 100 per cent would have been their founders desire.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #70 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:09pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:56pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

And herein lies the difference of opinion (or ethics).

A "church " , in my opinion , DOESNT have the right to spend that 1 million dollars "extra" donations as they see fit ie funding millionaire lifestyles for its pastors .

A "church " (and here i am talking about a "christian" church) has only RESPONSIBILITIES , not rights , to do what its founder advocated .

A) you are assuming they do - and they dont.
B) you are assuming YOU have the right to decide what a group does with THEIR Money - and you dont
C) you criticise people for feeding the poor. how is your credibility going today?
dy.

No I'm not.

I'm criticising an organization that claims to follow the teachings of jesus christ for spending .1 percent of their wealth ( WEALTH!!! In a "CHRISTIAN" organisation!!! unbelievable) on feeding the poor when nothing short of 100 per cent would have been their founders desire.

you want to be credible and claim 0.1% of income feeds nearly half of an entire country???

you are going to have to do a lot better than that. Id be interested to hear if you have actally read the Bible (the whole thing). from your rather silly claims Id be surprised if you had read any more of it than Lastnails selective out-of-context posts.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #71 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:11pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:56pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:45pm:

Grey wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Quote:

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

What did you do?

I do support a not for profit foundation and I know that all money goes towards the cause for which it was set up. Not much of what churches collect goes to worthy causes, but they claim tax free status on 100% of income.

Some of us think this is wrong.

you are wrong on almost everything there. tell me again when DONATIONS to any cause whatsoever has ever been TAXABLE. they arent and nor should they be. Donations and offerings to church arent taxable any more than the donations you give to support the lifesaveing society. Donations are not INCOME.

your simpeltons seem to be under the delusion that taking donations makes you a business. it doesnt. donations that are then paid to staff are income taxable. but the donations themsevels arent. If a church has $1M excess of donations over expenditure then it is theirs to do as they fit and is not taxable. IM surprised you cant tell the difference.l

And herein lies the difference of opinion (or ethics).

A "church " , in my opinion , DOESNT have the right to spend that 1 million dollars "extra" donations as they see fit ie funding millionaire lifestyles for its pastors .

A "church " (and here i am talking about a "christian" church) has only RESPONSIBILITIES , not rights , to do what its founder advocated .

A) you are assuming they do - and they dont.
B) you are assuming YOU have the right to decide what a group does with THEIR Money - and you dont
C) you criticise people for feeding the poor. how is your credibility going today?
dy.

No I'm not.

I'm criticising an organization that claims to follow the teachings of jesus christ for spending .1 percent of their wealth ( WEALTH!!! In a "CHRISTIAN" organisation!!! unbelievable) on feeding the poor when nothing short of 100 per cent would have been their founders desire.

wealth??? you shoudl actually go to a church, get involved and see what the wealth is. most struggle to pay their way and their pastor and NONE have large accumulations of cash.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #72 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:11pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:04pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:59pm:

[quote author=longweekend58

you might do to research non-profit first. it isnt as simple as it sounds. I did so a few years ago as part of a business analysis for a non-profit group (non church).

As far as churches go the only tax-exempt status they have apart from those any non-profit has is for an taxes on goods or services for 'religous observance'. that means that all taxes, duties and GST etc on anything used for a church service is refundable. That actually amounts to not very much in the running of a church other than building. day-to-day activities are taxed just the same as everyone else.

and people want to complain???

There are very few rich pastors. most are paid a pittance. some are paid well and the rich ones do so from book royalties and speaking tours. why that is a problem exactly is beyond me.

Again , because people who have read the life and teachings of jesus recognise that anyone claiming to act and speak and follow the example of jesus CAN NOT also be a rich person.

It's not rocket surgery.

ANY rich pastor/priest ( of the christian religion) is the same as a prostitute chastity campaigner , or a cannibal vegan proselytizer or a KKK tolerance advisor

u might try actually reading the Bible instead of one person's interpretation. you are actually dead wrong - which is fitting given that you are only grinding your axe against the Church AGAIN.

no comment on feeding milions of people? of course not. we must fixate on Brian Houston whos church has sold more music DVDs than any group or band in the country and a man whose books have sold millions of copies? How evil! We must not have sucess! we must be poor and ineffectual!!! the hungry must die and the hurting must suffer all so that a few sick people can ensure the church isnt successful.

lame. [/quote]

Sold more music DVDS?

Sold millions of books?

What bible verse or parable calls for these outcomes?

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #73 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:12pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:04pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:59pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:34pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Uncle wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:09pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1320891655/30#30 date=1320915493]the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

Ah the little ray of sunshine blesses us with his presence!

http://www.filipinouk.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/repuke.gif

The issue, Einstein, is with the law. What is the law? The law is simply nothing more than a mere act of Parliament.

This is why "the people" are asking questions (Heaven forbid that the Great Unwashed should dare ask questions!) about the laws that allow such inequality.

Tool.

While it is clear that you hate the Church and that is your right, dont think for a moment that removing tax free status from non-profits is somehow going to enrich socieity by removing most charities and impeding the actions of those that remain.

This month my church did a community project for the Childhood Cancer Association. Cost: $350,000. what did you do?

and this wouldnt be possible if non-profits were taxed. Mind you, it wouldnt be needed because the CHildhood Cancer Association wouldnt exist either.

I would be ok with this if the pastor of said church didnt live a millionaires lifestyle (like hillsong).

Raising 350000 for cancer is great but if the pastor and church higherups make 1,350,000 then it's not such a great result.

Now I am one of those people with not much of a knowledge on australian tax laws but maybe someone could enlighten me.

If the tax free status of "religious" groups is abolished , but any charitable donations or outlays paid by a "religious " group is tax deductible (just like any member of society I think) would this prevent "religious" groups from doing good in society?

Or would it just prevent those unscrupulous and money hungry , millionaire lifestyle type "religious" groups from getting away with selfish profit making?

when you talk about millionarie religious people you are usually talking about probably 3 of them in total. Is it reasonable to condemn an entire group for the actions of one? If that were the case the ALP wopuld be deregistered on the basis opf some its members crimes.

and secondly, many of these 'millionaires' are so on the basis of their non-church speaking fees and book royalties. Or are we going to deny people that as well?

The tax free status of non-profits and churches has been rorted in the past that is true. But the problem with threads like this is it assumes that ALL churches rort - and they dont. [highlight]Removing tax-free status of non-profits will only reduce their capacity to perform, doing more harm than good[/highlight].

How?

If they could claim any charitable outlay as a deduction , how would that limit their performance?

you might do to research non-profit first. it isnt as simple as it sounds. I did so a few years ago as part of a business analysis for a non-profit group (non church).

As far as churches go the only tax-exempt status they have apart from those any non-profit has is for an taxes on goods or services for 'religous observance'. that means that all taxes, duties and GST etc on anything used for a church service is refundable. That actually amounts to not very much in the running of a church other than building. day-to-day activities are taxed just the same as everyone else.

and people want to complain???

There are very few rich pastors. most are paid a pittance. some are paid well and the rich ones do so from book royalties and speaking tours. why that is a problem exactly is beyond me.

Again , because people who have read the life and teachings of jesus recognise that anyone claiming to act and speak and follow the example of jesus CAN NOT also be a rich person.

It's not rocket surgery.

ANY rich pastor/priest ( of the christian religion) is the same as a prostitute chastity campaigner , or a cannibal vegan proselytizer or a KKK tolerance advisor

How evil! We must not have sucess! we must be poor and ineffectual!!! .

Well you are half right.

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darkhall67

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Australian Politics

Posts: 1935

Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #74 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:09pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:06pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1320891655/60#63 da.

No I'm not.

I'm criticising an organization that claims to follow the teachings of jesus christ for spending .1 percent of their wealth ( WEALTH!!! In a "CHRISTIAN" organisation!!! unbelievable) on feeding the poor when nothing short of 100 per cent would have been their founders desire.

you want to be credible and claim 0.1% of income feeds nearly half of an entire country???

you are going to have to do a lot better than that. Id be interested to hear if you have actally read the Bible (the whole thing). from your rather silly claims Id be surprised if you had read any more of it than Lastnails selective out-of-context posts. [/quote]

.1 percent was hyperbole to make a point.

Not surprised you missed it.

But i wasnt just talking about the zimbabwe situation.

But still I wouldnt be surprised if the entire christians churches expenditure on the poor (worldwide and all "christian churches" )IS .1 percent

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