Australian Politics Forum - Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!

longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #75 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:19pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:04pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:59pm:

[quote author=longweekend58

you might do to research non-profit first. it isnt as simple as it sounds. I did so a few years ago as part of a business analysis for a non-profit group (non church).

As far as churches go the only tax-exempt status they have apart from those any non-profit has is for an taxes on goods or services for 'religous observance'. that means that all taxes, duties and GST etc on anything used for a church service is refundable. That actually amounts to not very much in the running of a church other than building. day-to-day activities are taxed just the same as everyone else.

and people want to complain???

There are very few rich pastors. most are paid a pittance. some are paid well and the rich ones do so from book royalties and speaking tours. why that is a problem exactly is beyond me.

Again , because people who have read the life and teachings of jesus recognise that anyone claiming to act and speak and follow the example of jesus CAN NOT also be a rich person.

It's not rocket surgery.

ANY rich pastor/priest ( of the christian religion) is the same as a prostitute chastity campaigner , or a cannibal vegan proselytizer or a KKK tolerance advisor

u might try actually reading the Bible instead of one person's interpretation. you are actually dead wrong - which is fitting given that you are only grinding your axe against the Church AGAIN.

no comment on feeding milions of people? of course not. we must fixate on Brian Houston whos church has sold more music DVDs than any group or band in the country and a man whose books have sold millions of copies? How evil! We must not have sucess! we must be poor and ineffectual!!! the hungry must die and the hurting must suffer all so that a few sick people can ensure the church isnt successful.

lame.

Sold more music DVDS?

Sold millions of books?

What bible verse or parable calls for these outcomes?

[/quote]

LOL the Bible actually refers to God giving success to beleivers!! But I guess such passages didnt make it past your 'filter'. and where does that money go? helping the poor. feeding the hungry and teaching kids who have no schools. yeah, Im so sure God would be upset with that.

Somehow in that mind of yours youd be happy if the church helped 1/10 as many people as long as they received 1/100 as much as they do now. You arent talking ethics or outcomes. you are just saying you hate the church. Fortunately, some people help the poor. Pity your contribution is soley to attack those that do. awfully 'Taliban' of you.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #76 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:22pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:09pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:06pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1320891655/60#63 da.

No I'm not.

I'm criticising an organization that claims to follow the teachings of jesus christ for spending .1 percent of their wealth ( WEALTH!!! In a "CHRISTIAN" organisation!!! unbelievable) on feeding the poor when nothing short of 100 per cent would have been their founders desire.

you want to be credible and claim 0.1% of income feeds nearly half of an entire country???

you are going to have to do a lot better than that. Id be interested to hear if you have actally read the Bible (the whole thing). from your rather silly claims Id be surprised if you had read any more of it than Lastnails selective out-of-context posts.

.1 percent was hyperbole to make a point.

Not surprised you missed it.

But i wasnt just talking about the zimbabwe situation.

But still I wouldnt be surprised if the entire christians churches expenditure on the poor (worldwide and all "christian churches" )IS .1 percent
[/quote]

you wouldnt be surprised because if you were told that 50% went to the poor you'd only say it wasnt true. See, you arent really interested in truth - hence your 0.1% stupidity - it it was stupidity, not hyperbole. If the church gave 99% of its income you'd still complain. If they gave 100% youd find something to argue that they should be giving 150% of income - all while you did nothing.

You criticise imperfect effort while sitting back and doing nothing yourself. Who do you really think is thanking you for that? the starving in Zimbabwe?

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #77 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:23pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:19pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:04pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 9:59pm:

[quote author=longweekend58

you might do to research non-profit first. it isnt as simple as it sounds. I did so a few years ago as part of a business analysis for a non-profit group (non church).

As far as churches go the only tax-exempt status they have apart from those any non-profit has is for an taxes on goods or services for 'religous observance'. that means that all taxes, duties and GST etc on anything used for a church service is refundable. That actually amounts to not very much in the running of a church other than building. day-to-day activities are taxed just the same as everyone else.

and people want to complain???

There are very few rich pastors. most are paid a pittance. some are paid well and the rich ones do so from book royalties and speaking tours. why that is a problem exactly is beyond me.

Again , because people who have read the life and teachings of jesus recognise that anyone claiming to act and speak and follow the example of jesus CAN NOT also be a rich person.

It's not rocket surgery.

ANY rich pastor/priest ( of the christian religion) is the same as a prostitute chastity campaigner , or a cannibal vegan proselytizer or a KKK tolerance advisor

u might try actually reading the Bible instead of one person's interpretation. you are actually dead wrong - which is fitting given that you are only grinding your axe against the Church AGAIN.

no comment on feeding milions of people? of course not. we must fixate on Brian Houston whos church has sold more music DVDs than any group or band in the country and a man whose books have sold millions of copies? How evil! We must not have sucess! we must be poor and ineffectual!!! the hungry must die and the hurting must suffer all so that a few sick people can ensure the church isnt successful.

lame.

Sold more music DVDS?

Sold millions of books?

What bible verse or parable calls for these outcomes?

LOL the Bible actually refers to God giving success to beleivers!! . [/quote]

And I am sure it refers to FINANCIAL success.

That's right pilgrims.

God WANTS you to have a million dollars in the bank , a Mercedes , wear georgio armani suits and eat caviar and drink champagne.

I mean , after all , that's what he sent his son down to earth to do.

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Uncle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 688	Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !! Reply #78 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:26pm Very "Christian" of you longwinded. You do realise that Jesus Christ was leftwing don't you?
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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #79 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:27pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:22pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:09pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:06pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1320891655/60#63 da.

No I'm not.

I'm criticising an organization that claims to follow the teachings of jesus christ for spending .1 percent of their wealth ( WEALTH!!! In a "CHRISTIAN" organisation!!! unbelievable) on feeding the poor when nothing short of 100 per cent would have been their founders desire.

you want to be credible and claim 0.1% of income feeds nearly half of an entire country???

you are going to have to do a lot better than that. Id be interested to hear if you have actally read the Bible (the whole thing). from your rather silly claims Id be surprised if you had read any more of it than Lastnails selective out-of-context posts.

.1 percent was hyperbole to make a point.

Not surprised you missed it.

But i wasnt just talking about the zimbabwe situation.

But still I wouldnt be surprised if the entire christians churches expenditure on the poor (worldwide and all "christian churches" )IS .1 percent

you wouldnt be surprised because if you were told that 50% went to the poor you'd only say it wasnt true. [/quote]

No i wouldnt.

But only you would think that 50 percent is an acceptable figure for a "christian" church to spend on the poor.

50 percent AINT ENOUGH.

Not for a church supposedly based on the life and teachings of jesus christ.

It doesnt take no biblical scholar to work that out.

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #80 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:29pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:22pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm:

[quote author=lon

you wouldnt be surprised because if you were told that 50% went to the poor you'd only say it wasnt true. See, you arent really interested in truth - hence your 0.1% stupidity - it it was stupidity, not hyperbole. If the church gave 99% of its income you'd still complain. If they gave 100% youd find something to argue that they should be giving 150% of income - all while you did nothing.

You criticise imperfect effort while sitting back and doing nothing yourself. Who do you really think is thanking you for that? the starving in Zimbabwe?

No.

If they gave 100 percent I would say that they are doing christs teachings.

And by the way , you have NO idea what I do

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #81 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:32pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:22pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:09pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:06pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1320891655/60#63 da.

No I'm not.

I'm criticising an organization that claims to follow the teachings of jesus christ for spending .1 percent of their wealth ( WEALTH!!! In a "CHRISTIAN" organisation!!! unbelievable) on feeding the poor when nothing short of 100 per cent would have been their founders desire.

you want to be credible and claim 0.1% of income feeds nearly half of an entire country???

you are going to have to do a lot better than that. Id be interested to hear if you have actally read the Bible (the whole thing). from your rather silly claims Id be surprised if you had read any more of it than Lastnails selective out-of-context posts.

.1 percent was hyperbole to make a point.

Not surprised you missed it.

But i wasnt just talking about the zimbabwe situation.

But still I wouldnt be surprised if the entire christians churches expenditure on the poor (worldwide and all "christian churches" )IS .1 percent

you wouldnt be surprised because if you were told that 50% went to the poor you'd only say it wasnt true.

No i wouldnt.

But only you would think that 50 percent is an acceptable figure for a "christian" church to spend on the poor.

50 percent AINT ENOUGH.

Not for a church supposedly based on the life and teachings of jesus christ.

It doesnt take no biblical scholar to work that out. [/quote]

simple practicalities... how does a church worker feed and clothe themselves while doing the work if they are not paid because the church has to give all its money to the poor??

And how does the food even get to Zimbabwe's poor because the church doesnt have the money to buy trucks to get it there.

Even the Bible says it id RIGHT for a worker of righteousness to be paid. see, you'd know that if you ever read the words of the Man you chose to quote.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #82 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:34pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:22pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm:

[quote author=lon

you wouldnt be surprised because if you were told that 50% went to the poor you'd only say it wasnt true. See, you arent really interested in truth - hence your 0.1% stupidity - it it was stupidity, not hyperbole. If the church gave 99% of its income you'd still complain. If they gave 100% youd find something to argue that they should be giving 150% of income - all while you did nothing.

You criticise imperfect effort while sitting back and doing nothing yourself. Who do you really think is thanking you for that? the starving in Zimbabwe?

No.

If they gave 100 percent I would say that they are doing christs teachings.

And by the way , you have NO idea what I do

actually I do. it is almost always the same. the loudest voices in complaint are usually those who do the least. its true in every aspect of life. They give $20 occasionally to a charity and think they are doing well while criticsing people who give 10% of their salaries and their free time and skills to help the poor.

Ive seen it all before. You MAY be one of the few exceptions, but statistics are overwhelmingly on my side.

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Bobby.

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #83 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:34pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

so how much of the 100 million per year turnover that HillSux makes actually goes to charity ??

any ideas ??

Quote:

All this growth, plus the tithing (giving 10% of pre-tax salary to the church), and not having to pay tax, is translating into prosperous churches whose leaders are flush with cash. A traditional Australian suburban church typically has fewer than 100 members and an annual budget of less than $50,000. The average Pentecostal church has revenue 10 times that, and many of the pastors have become millionaires on the talk circuit and from the sale of books and DVDs. Powell says the royalties received and money earned from speaking overseas go to these pastors, but their profile comes from the church. “It is a bit like the Pope charging for speaking engagements, and then keeping the cash,” he says.

Hi Nail,
Why must I pay heavy taxes yet these people selling life after death don't?
It's not fair.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #84 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:35pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:22pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm:

[quote author=lon

you wouldnt be surprised because if you were told that 50% went to the poor you'd only say it wasnt true. See, you arent really interested in truth - hence your 0.1% stupidity - it it was stupidity, not hyperbole. If the church gave 99% of its income you'd still complain. If they gave 100% youd find something to argue that they should be giving 150% of income - all while you did nothing.

You criticise imperfect effort while sitting back and doing nothing yourself. Who do you really think is thanking you for that? the starving in Zimbabwe?

No.

If they gave 100 percent I would say that they are doing christs teachings.

And by the way , you have NO idea what I do

how does ANYONE give 100% of their income away every year.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #85 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:37pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:34pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 8:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 6:58pm:

the usual suspects making the usual comments and only Verge seems to have any idea of what it is.

Not for Profits dont pay tax on their surplus (not profit). you dont like it? complain the the govt and watch a large number of community organisations collapse - mainly charities, welfare groups and community sporting groups etc.

most of the nonsense spread here is by people who know nothing about what goes on and even less about taxation law. if all these 'tax evasions' are going on - churches and miners for example - why do you think the ATO isnt taking action? just perhaps because... they ARENT evading tax?

so how much of the 100 million per year turnover that HillSux makes actually goes to charity ??

any ideas ??

Quote:

All this growth, plus the tithing (giving 10% of pre-tax salary to the church), and not having to pay tax, is translating into prosperous churches whose leaders are flush with cash. A traditional Australian suburban church typically has fewer than 100 members and an annual budget of less than $50,000. The average Pentecostal church has revenue 10 times that, and many of the pastors have become millionaires on the talk circuit and from the sale of books and DVDs. Powell says the royalties received and money earned from speaking overseas go to these pastors, but their profile comes from the church. “It is a bit like the Pope charging for speaking engagements, and then keeping the cash,” he says.

Hi Nail,
Why must I pay heavy taxes yet these people selling life after death don't?
It's not fair.

ah... the second half of Dumb and Dumber arrives.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #86 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:38pm

You're confusing outlay with profits paid to fund the lifestyles of millionaire pastors.

i'm not saying that christian workers shouldnt be able to buy food , buy trucks to deliver that food etc.

It's the driving around in mercedes , the extravagant house and lifestyle sthat people like the hillsong (and catholic churches) enjoy.

Tax all self proclaimed "churches" and give tax deductions for any charitable works (including having to buy trucks to deliver food etc)

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darkhall67

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #87 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:40pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:34pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:22pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm:

[quote author=lon

you wouldnt be surprised because if you were told that 50% went to the poor you'd only say it wasnt true. See, you arent really interested in truth - hence your 0.1% stupidity - it it was stupidity, not hyperbole. If the church gave 99% of its income you'd still complain. If they gave 100% youd find something to argue that they should be giving 150% of income - all while you did nothing.

You criticise imperfect effort while sitting back and doing nothing yourself. Who do you really think is thanking you for that? the starving in Zimbabwe?

No.

If they gave 100 percent I would say that they are doing christs teachings.

And by the way , you have NO idea what I do

actually I do. it is almost always the same. the loudest voices in complaint are usually those who do the least. its true in every aspect of life. They give $20 occasionally to a charity and think they are doing well while criticsing people who give 10% of their salaries and their free time and skills to help the poor.

Ive seen it all before. You MAY be one of the few exceptions, but statistics are overwhelmingly on my side.

But they are NOT giving it to the poor are they?

They are giving it to the rich.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #88 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:40pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:38pm:

You're confusing outlay with profits paid to fund the lifestyles of millionaire pastors.

i'm not saying that christian workers shouldnt be able to buy food , buy trucks to deliver that food etc.

It's the driving around in mercedes , the extravagant house and lifestyle sthat people like the hillsong (and catholic churches) enjoy.

Tax all self proclaimed "churches" and give tax deductions for any charitable works (including having to buy trucks to deliver food etc)

so you think all donations to a church should be taxable income right? is that what you are saying? because if that is true then church donations automatically become income tax deductible to the donor thius making it a zero-sum game.

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longweekend58

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Re: Hillsong – Gods Millionaires that don't pay tax !!
Reply #89 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:42pm

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:34pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:22pm:

darkhall67 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2011 at 10:18pm:

[quote author=lon

you wouldnt be surprised because if you were told that 50% went to the poor you'd only say it wasnt true. See, you arent really interested in truth - hence your 0.1% stupidity - it it was stupidity, not hyperbole. If the church gave 99% of its income you'd still complain. If they gave 100% youd find something to argue that they should be giving 150% of income - all while you did nothing.

You criticise imperfect effort while sitting back and doing nothing yourself. Who do you really think is thanking you for that? the starving in Zimbabwe?

No.

If they gave 100 percent I would say that they are doing christs teachings.

And by the way , you have NO idea what I do

actually I do. it is almost always the same. the loudest voices in complaint are usually those who do the least. its true in every aspect of life. They give $20 occasionally to a charity and think they are doing well while criticsing people who give 10% of their salaries and their free time and skills to help the poor.

Ive seen it all before. You MAY be one of the few exceptions, but statistics are overwhelmingly on my side.

But they are NOT giving it to the poor are they?

They are giving it to the rich.

now you just sound stupid and nail-like. in the Bible - since you want to quote it - the donations were brought to the house of God (the church) and the leaders distributed it from there INCLUDING to the running of the church and to its leaders. Funny, the biblical command sounds awefully like what teh Church actually does.

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