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Roger Scruton (Read 21716 times)
Lisa Jones
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Roger Scruton
Nov 12th, 2011 at 5:30pm
 
"Philosopher Roger Scruton presents a provocative essay on the importance of beauty in the arts and in our lives.

In the 20th century, Scruton argues, art, architecture and music turned their backs on beauty, making a cult of ugliness and leading us into a spiritual desert.

Using the thoughts of philosophers from Plato to Kant, and by talking to artists Michael Craig-Martin and Alexander Stoddart, Scruton analyses where art went wrong and presents his own impassioned case for restoring beauty to its traditional position at the centre of our civilisation."


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barnaby joe
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #1 - Nov 12th, 2011 at 5:57pm
 
wow lisa you're brilliant!!!
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #2 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:58am
 
An interesting documentary.
Scruton is one of those rare living philosophers who doesn't go for postmodernist thought. He is quite conservative. His arguments for the reintroduction of the standards of beauty set by Plato and Kant are excellent but, I think, is beyond us now. Art has been deomcratized. It has been taken out of the hands of artists and placed in the hands of anarchists. The main purpose for art now is to shock. This is why we have things today like Pisschrist and no David. This is what happens when you try and level society, genius is taken to be equal to philistinism. This is why I oppose equality; it tries and bring everyone down to the same level. No more genius, no more greatness, rather, the ordinary and grotesque take centre stage. There was a reason on why cultures were aristocratic for over 2 millenia; to hold up higher standards of judgment. Art being a classic example here.

The modern enemies of art are the same as the modern enemies of Western civilization: the socialists, anarchists, feminists, and any other anti-authoritarian movement.
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #3 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 7:35pm
 
Yes, Bolshevik. We should keep beauty for the elite who deserve it and leave the peasants in their stark, brown drudgery.

It's the right thing to do.
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #4 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:13pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:58am:
An interesting documentary.
Scruton is one of those rare living philosophers who doesn't go for postmodernist thought. He is quite conservative. His arguments for the reintroduction of the standards of beauty set by Plato and Kant are excellent but, I think, is beyond us now. Art has been deomcratized. It has been taken out of the hands of artists and placed in the hands of anarchists. The main purpose for art now is to shock. This is why we have things today like Pisschrist and no David. This is what happens when you try and level society, genius is taken to be equal to philistinism. This is why I oppose equality; it tries and bring everyone down to the same level. No more genius, no more greatness, rather, the ordinary and grotesque take centre stage. There was a reason on why cultures were aristocratic for over 2 millenia; to hold up higher standards of judgment. Art being a classic example here.

The modern enemies of art are the same as the modern enemies of Western civilization: the socialists, anarchists, feminists, and any other anti-authoritarian movement.


Yes fascists are the beautiful people and everybody else should go to the lime pits. In your dreams.  Grin
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #5 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:20pm
 
It was all so pretty back then.



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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #6 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:24pm
 
Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:13pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:58am:
An interesting documentary.
Scruton is one of those rare living philosophers who doesn't go for postmodernist thought. He is quite conservative. His arguments for the reintroduction of the standards of beauty set by Plato and Kant are excellent but, I think, is beyond us now. Art has been deomcratized. It has been taken out of the hands of artists and placed in the hands of anarchists. The main purpose for art now is to shock. This is why we have things today like Pisschrist and no David. This is what happens when you try and level society, genius is taken to be equal to philistinism. This is why I oppose equality; it tries and bring everyone down to the same level. No more genius, no more greatness, rather, the ordinary and grotesque take centre stage. There was a reason on why cultures were aristocratic for over 2 millenia; to hold up higher standards of judgment. Art being a classic example here.

The modern enemies of art are the same as the modern enemies of Western civilization: the socialists, anarchists, feminists, and any other anti-authoritarian movement.


Yes fascists are the beautiful people and everybody else should go to the lime pits. In your dreams.  Grin


Or Scotland.
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #7 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:18pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:58am:
The modern enemies of art are the same as the modern enemies of Western civilization: the socialists, anarchists, feminists, and any other anti-authoritarian movement.

Don't forget the other totalitarians... And those driven by artless ego...
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Grey
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #8 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:38pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:18pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:58am:
The modern enemies of art are the same as the modern enemies of Western civilization: the socialists, anarchists, feminists, and any other anti-authoritarian movement.

Don't forget the other totalitarians... And those driven by artless ego...


Urr what do you mean 'the other totalitarians'? Bolshie likes totalitarians as long as they're RW. Anarchists are anti-totalitarian.
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #9 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:44pm
 
Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:38pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:18pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:58am:
The modern enemies of art are the same as the modern enemies of Western civilization: the socialists, anarchists, feminists, and any other anti-authoritarian movement.

Don't forget the other totalitarians... And those driven by artless ego...


Urr what do you mean 'the other totalitarians'? Bolshie likes totalitarians as long as they're RW. Anarchists are anti-totalitarian.

Like the extreme points of an arc... Opposites are (almost) infinitely proximate.
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #10 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 10:00pm
 
Maybe my detractors would like to answer this: What is more beautiful and why, Pisschrist or David?
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Grey
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #11 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 10:02pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:44pm:
Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:38pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:18pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:58am:
The modern enemies of art are the same as the modern enemies of Western civilization: the socialists, anarchists, feminists, and any other anti-authoritarian movement.

Don't forget the other totalitarians... And those driven by artless ego...


Urr what do you mean 'the other totalitarians'? Bolshie likes totalitarians as long as they're RW. Anarchists are anti-totalitarian.

Like the extreme points of an arc... Opposites are (almost) infinitely proximate.


Not on an arc no. East and west collide, Bolshevism/Fascism yes. But not authoritarian and Libertarian that's a North - South divide.  Tongue
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #12 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 10:05pm
 
Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 10:02pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:44pm:
Grey wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:38pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 9:18pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 8:58am:
The modern enemies of art are the same as the modern enemies of Western civilization: the socialists, anarchists, feminists, and any other anti-authoritarian movement.

Don't forget the other totalitarians... And those driven by artless ego...


Urr what do you mean 'the other totalitarians'? Bolshie likes totalitarians as long as they're RW. Anarchists are anti-totalitarian.

Like the extreme points of an arc... Opposites are (almost) infinitely proximate.


Not on an arc no. East and west collide, Bolshevism/Fascism yes. But not authoritarian and Libertarian that's a North - South divide.  Tongue

The cosmos is curved... East meets west, north meets south Wink
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #13 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 10:23pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 10:00pm:
Maybe my detractors would like to answer this: What is more beautiful and why, Pisschrist or David?



It comes down to individual appreciation. I personally don't think either are beautiful, but I much prefer David as a piece of art. Serrano intended to shock and insult, which he accomplished. I don't respect his creativity and when I look at the photograph, I feel a mild revulsion.


My favourite piece of art is by Spitzweg, but I don't find it beautiful. It's exciting.

Is artistic creativity necessarily about beauty?
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Re: Roger Scruton
Reply #14 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 11:39pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 10:00pm:
Maybe my detractors would like to answer this: What is more beautiful and why, Pisschrist or David?


For a start you haven't made the jump from commentator to subject, anywhere outside of your own ego. David is sublime, Michelangelo is perhaps the most accomplished producer of beautiful art ever. You're not going to get much argument on that score.

So is that it? Art died with Michelangelo? Of course not. Art is a viewpoint and there are as many views as people, rage, pity, feminism, masculinism, poverty, wealth etc have as much right to be represented in art as beauty. We like the art that resonates with us. I have a particular fondness for art that contains contrasts and multiple ideas. Art that is merely beautiful has no place in this age. It is unsophisticated, puerile, and yes, Michelangelo transcends that obstacle and is timeless. But comparing David with the art that resonates least with you and pompously declaring 'see'; that's idiotic.
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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
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