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Cannabis, it's time to have the debate (Read 7477 times)
qikvtec
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Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Nov 17th, 2011 at 7:21pm
 
I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use.

Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here.

The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside).

Portugal has led the way on the issue.

Let's discuss.
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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #1 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:02pm
 
Why is it that most people would baulk at the idea of using Cannabis Sativa or Indica to assist and manage a number of conditions, yet happily munch down toxic chemicals derived from crude oil or opium derivatives?

Why is it they would happily deny someone the opportunity when it has zero impact on themselves?

Why is it as a nation, and indeed a global community, we continue to fight a never ending, un-winnable war when the funding could be better directed to curing or treating dread diseases, some derived from the very things we seek to eradicate?
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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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Kat
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #2 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:12pm
 
Legalise it for both medicinal AND recreational use.

No debate needed.

Just DO IT!!

Illegality is the crime, not use.

Not that I expect the more clueless amog us to ever understand that....
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #3 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:27pm
 
I wouldn't advocate every man and his dog operating clandestine chemical laboratories in their back yards, but give everyone that want's it the opportunity to grow 2 to 4 plants and have sufficient personal supply for a month.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #4 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:37pm
 
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163725802002528

Abstract
During the last decade, rigorous scientific methods have been applied to determine the effects of cannabinoids on nociceptive neurotransmission. Cannabinoids have been observed to markedly decrease signalling in specific neural pathways that transmit messages about pain. These effects were found to be due to the suppression of spinal and thalamic nociceptive neurons, and independent of any actions on either the motor system or sensory neurons that transmit messages related to non-nociceptive stimulation. Spinal, supraspinal, and peripheral sites of cannabinoid analgesia have been identified. The discovery of endocannabinoids raised the question of their natural role in pain. Multiple lines of evidence indicate that endocannabinoids serve naturally to suppress pain. While it is now clear that cannabinoids suppress nociceptive neurotransmission, more work is needed to establish the clinical utility of these compounds. The few human studies conducted to date produced mixed results, with more promising findings coming from studies of clinical pain as compared with experimental pain. The therapeutic potential of cannabinoids remains an important topic for future investigations.

Keywords: Cannabinoid; Pain; Analgesia; Receptor; Anandamide; Endocannabinoid

"…to date, there are no deaths known to have resulted from overdose of cannabis. (p. 128)"

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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Kat
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #5 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:41pm
 
qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:37pm:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163725802002528

Abstract
During the last decade, rigorous scientific methods have been applied to determine the effects of cannabinoids on nociceptive neurotransmission. Cannabinoids have been observed to markedly decrease signalling in specific neural pathways that transmit messages about pain. These effects were found to be due to the suppression of spinal and thalamic nociceptive neurons, and independent of any actions on either the motor system or sensory neurons that transmit messages related to non-nociceptive stimulation. Spinal, supraspinal, and peripheral sites of cannabinoid analgesia have been identified. The discovery of endocannabinoids raised the question of their natural role in pain. Multiple lines of evidence indicate that endocannabinoids serve naturally to suppress pain. While it is now clear that cannabinoids suppress nociceptive neurotransmission, more work is needed to establish the clinical utility of these compounds. The few human studies conducted to date produced mixed results, with more promising findings coming from studies of clinical pain as compared with experimental pain. The therapeutic potential of cannabinoids remains an important topic for future investigations.

Keywords: Cannabinoid; Pain; Analgesia; Receptor; Anandamide; Endocannabinoid

"…to date, there are no deaths known to have resulted from overdose of cannabis. (p. 128)"




You're using facts, Qikvtec.

Won't work on the 'antis'.

They know better.

Just ask them....
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #6 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:48pm
 
Lists of conditions known to be treated effectively with a harmless plant

Glaucoma
Period Pain
Anorexia
Cancer - if not directly related to tumour death, return of appetite, analgesia and deep restorative sleep.
Anxiety
Depression
General and severe pain
Epilepsy
MS
Parkinsons

The cost of policing this harmless yet incredibly valuable plant is enormous and could easily be better directed to studying the positive medical impacts, completely ignoring the obvious commercial benefits of fibre, oil and seeds.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #7 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:53pm
 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-1331.2006.01639.x/full

Keywords:
cannabis-based medicine;multiple sclerosis;Sativex;spasticity
Symptoms relating to spasticity are common in multiple sclerosis (MS) and can be difficult to treat. We have investigated the efficacy, safety and tolerability of a standardized oromucosal whole plant cannabis-based medicine (CBM) containing Δ-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD), upon spasticity in MS. A total of 189 subjects with definite MS and spasticity were randomized to receive daily doses of active preparation (n = 124) or placebo (n = 65) in a double blind study over 6 weeks. The primary endpoint was the change in a daily subject-recorded Numerical Rating Scale of spasticity. Secondary endpoints included a measure of spasticity (Ashworth Score) and a subjective measure of spasm. The primary efficacy analysis on the intention to treat (ITT) population (n = 184) showed the active preparation to be significantly superior (P = 0.048). Secondary efficacy measures were all in favour of active preparation but did not achieve statistical significance. The responder analysis favoured active preparation, 40% of subjects achieved >30% benefit (P = 0.014). Eight withdrawals were attributed to adverse events (AEs); six were on active preparation and two on placebo. We conclude that this CBM may represent a useful new agent for treatment of the symptomatic relief of spasticity in MS.
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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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Kat
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:55pm
 
I have a close relative with multiple sclerosis.

Cannabis is the ONLY thing that eases his symptoms and allows him to function.

He's tried ALL the 'legal' drugs, they do diddly-squat.

And some of the side-effects are literally horrendous.
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:59pm
 
Kat wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:55pm:
I have a close relative with multiple sclerosis.

Cannabis is the ONLY thing that eases his symptoms and allows him to function.

He's tried ALL the 'legal' drugs, they do diddly-squat.


I have lost too many friends to cancer, have another with Parkinsons, another with MS and 3 currently diagnosed with terminal cancer yet, as a result of the stigma know no way to make them aware of the properties of Cannabis and it's ability to assist in the pain management at the very least.

There is the crime.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #10 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 5:32am
 
I knew a man who smoked Marijuana for a chronic back problem, he swore by it. I have no problems with anyone growing a couple of plants for discreet personal therapeutic use. The mother of the teenagers next door probably wouldn't want her kids to know about it, that's why I say discreet.

I'm not informed enough to know if it should be legalised for recreational use, but it's probably no worse than tobacco and fast food, so I'd most likely vote yes if I was asked. Although state revenue would suffer, isn't that what it's all about?
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #11 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 8:30am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 5:32am:
I knew a man who smoked Marijuana for a chronic back problem, he swore by it. I have no problems with anyone growing a couple of plants for discreet personal therapeutic use. The mother of the teenagers next door probably wouldn't want her kids to know about it, that's why I say discreet.

I'm not informed enough to know if it should be legalised for recreational use, but it's probably no worse than tobacco and fast food, so I'd most likely vote yes if I was asked. Although state revenue would suffer, isn't that what it's all about?


Tobacco is responsible for 40 preventable deaths per DAY in Australia; there is not one recorded death directly attributable to Cannabis anywhere in the world.

State revenue would probably improve if Cannabis was legalised.

This paper indicates the cost of drug policing, prosecution and detention, on a national basis and concludes "Since about 1,500, 000 drug offences were prosecuted between 1976 and 2000 at an average cost per drug offence of $8500 in $1998A, this suggests that about $13 billion (in 1998 dollars) was spent on drug prohibition in the period between 1976 and 2000" or once you factor in inflation about AUD$15-17b!

How many hospitals would that build?

In 1998 the value of the Australian Cannabis market was estimated to be AUD$3.2b, (close to $4b in AUD$2011)

"During 25 years of the War on Drugs the value of the cannabis market increased by an astonishing 7500%"

"Because Prohibition is a supply side solution, all that is achieved by increasing the amount spent on drug law enforcement is to increase the price of the drug, so the value of the black market rises as a multiple of drug law enforcement. For example, if we reduced the amount spent on drug law enforcement to almost nothing (that is, if we abandoned prohibition), the price of drugs would fall to a level where the black market
would collapse. Like all products, the price of illicit drugs is determined by the costs involved in getting the drugs to market. In a situation of prohibition, most of that cost is created by drug law enforcement. "

"Conclusion

Between January 1976 and December 2000, Australian governments spent in the order of $13 billion prosecuting about one and a half million drug offences with the purpose of reducing drug use. However, drug prohibition did not reduce illicit drug use; instead it created an enormous black market, spiralling prison populations and a plague of heroin overdoses. The futility of prohibition was demonstrated even in “successes” like the marijuana drought of 1977, which created the conditions for the heroin plague, and the heroin drought of 2001, which led to the current methamphetamine plague. On the two occasions they have occurred, droughts have only acted as incubators for a new drug plague. Prohibition is a cure that makes the disease worse. It aims to stop the use of drugs, but instead, it glamorises drug use. It aims to morally improve the drug user, but instead, it corrupts society. Under the rule of morals improvers and “War on Drugs” advocates like Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen and Sir Robert Askin, states like Queensland and New South Wales descended to levels of corruption that made their police forces a public scandal. Rather than being suppressed by the police, the drug trade thrived and became the lucrative fiefdom of corrupt detectives and their close
friends; so that, even though more people went to jail for drugs each year, every year there were more drugs on the street.

At the start of the War on Drugs, free market economist, Milton Friedman, declared that the failure of prohibition was inevitable because of corruption as officials succumbed to the lure of easy money: Said Friedman: “So long as large sums of money are involved—and they are bound to be if drugs are illegal—it is literally hopeless to expect to end the traffic or even to reduce seriously its scope.” 22

As this paper shows, money spent on drug prohibition simply acts as a multiplier for the drug market, increasing the amount available for perverting officials. It is this capacity of the black market to corrupt the gatekeepers that causes prohibition to fail year after year. The result is the entrenched system of corruption whereby the drug trade continues under the protection of corrupt police. "

__________________________________

Patients seeking relief from a number of ailments are forced to smoke Cannabis as it's the most cost effective means of inducing the benefits.  1 ounce of hash oil would provide sufficient pain relief for chronic pain for 2 weeks to a month, but it takes 1 pound of quality cannabis to produce that oil at a cost of between $3000-$4000. 

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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skippy.
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #12 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 9:20am
 
Of course it should be legalised, just about everyone does or has done it.

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #13 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:06am
 
If you're to have any chance of getting through to the 'antis' you've got to drop the 'harmless' line.

It might be effectively harmless to do every one in a while, but regular use is harmful - mostly to your level of motivation. 

But even with 100% honesty, most of 'em probably still won't listen.
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In the fullness of time...
 
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #14 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:09am
 
... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:06am:
If you're to have any chance of getting through to the 'antis' you've got to drop the 'harmless' line.

It might be effectively harmless to do every one in a while, but regular use is harmful - mostly to your level of motivation.  

But even with 100% honesty, most of 'em probably still won't listen.  


Where is the evidence of harm?
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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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