Australian Politics Forum - Cannabis, it's time to have the debate

Equitist

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #30 - Nov 18^th, 2011 at 6:09pm

It sounds to me, Cods, as though the family you describe has a predisposition to ADD/ADHD - though the older generations would have gone undiagnosed and untreated...

If the 15 year old you mentioned has not been properly medicated and counseled, then there's every chance that he'll start self-medicating soon...

BTW, smoking cigarettes is a common pre-cursor to smoking pot...

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qikvtec

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #31 - Nov 18^th, 2011 at 6:10pm

cods wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 5:51pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 1:17pm:

... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 11:52am:

Oh I agree, I don't think it should be illegal. The only concern I have is that should it be legalised, the government will no doubt want a hefty slice of revenue, much like they do with cigarettes.
This doesn't bode well for anyone having the gall to grow their own - what attracts a minor penalty under prohibition will be termed 'tax evasion' and attract a much stiffer penalty. Go figure.

As a legal product I think it should probably be treated in the same way as alcohol would be taxed, nil tax for non commercial quantities, licensed and regulated production and distribution systems for the commercial operators.

wasnt it Amsterdam that had all those cafes where smoking was legal, very cool and advanced.. I read somewhere where they are shutting down..and only a few left for the local pot heads..

I am sure you enjoy what you do gik and hopefully is doesnt have any bad effects on your health..but my grandson comes from an addictive family..he is now 15... he has a cousin in jail for a hold up in relation to drug addiction.his greatgrandfather died of alcolism. his grandfather is an alcoholic.. his uncle that lives with his nan and grandfather is an alcoholic.
I am terrified that he will be one of those addicted from day one...to anything thats addictive..

words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill..

you dont seem to think this can lead to more devastating things..

when you talk like this I shake my head as I see the problems we have now with grog and pokermachines...everyone trying to undo whats been done..and you think legalising this is a good thing..

treating another problem like we do alcohol!!!!!... ask the Salvation Army about alcohol abd what it is doing to society.

I have already had the abuse screamed t me claiming I know nothing about this...but I have eyes and I see a young man in jail for 5 years all thanks to drugs and his "mates" that got him sucked in again.

Cannabis is not addictive, it has no physically addictive properties.

I don't consume cannabis for recreational purposes, I use it for pain management, usually less than .5g per day (which is bugger all). The fact is, the illegal nature of the plant prevents me from consuming any other way; the cost would be prohibitive.

Cannabis is often known as a gateway drug, but in most cases the gateway is Tobacco or Alcohol.

Alcohol is by far a bigger problem than all other illegal drugs combined, tobacco bigger again, in fact I'd be surprised if Coffee didn't cause more issues than Cannabis.

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« Last Edit: Nov 18^th, 2011 at 10:47pm by qikvtec »

Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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qikvtec Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1846 Queensland	Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate Reply #32 - Nov 18^th, 2011 at 7:09pm http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth.shtml This is a good read for those interested, it's pretty light on.
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qikvtec Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1846 Queensland	Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate Reply #33 - Nov 18^th, 2011 at 9:28pm Cods "The Project" on Ten, Monday 6.30, is running the story about the Cannabis medicine man. You should check it out.
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skippy.

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #34 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 2:56pm

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 6:10pm:

cods wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 5:51pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 1:17pm:

... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 11:52am:

Oh I agree, I don't think it should be illegal. The only concern I have is that should it be legalised, the government will no doubt want a hefty slice of revenue, much like they do with cigarettes.
This doesn't bode well for anyone having the gall to grow their own - what attracts a minor penalty under prohibition will be termed 'tax evasion' and attract a much stiffer penalty. Go figure.

As a legal product I think it should probably be treated in the same way as alcohol would be taxed, nil tax for non commercial quantities, licensed and regulated production and distribution systems for the commercial operators.

wasnt it Amsterdam that had all those cafes where smoking was legal, very cool and advanced.. I read somewhere where they are shutting down..and only a few left for the local pot heads..

I am sure you enjoy what you do gik and hopefully is doesnt have any bad effects on your health..but my grandson comes from an addictive family..he is now 15... he has a cousin in jail for a hold up in relation to drug addiction.his greatgrandfather died of alcolism. his grandfather is an alcoholic.. his uncle that lives with his nan and grandfather is an alcoholic.
I am terrified that he will be one of those addicted from day one...to anything thats addictive..

words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill..

you dont seem to think this can lead to more devastating things..

when you talk like this I shake my head as I see the problems we have now with grog and pokermachines...everyone trying to undo whats been done..and you think legalising this is a good thing..

treating another problem like we do alcohol!!!!!... ask the Salvation Army about alcohol abd what it is doing to society.

I have already had the abuse screamed t me claiming I know nothing about this...but I have eyes and I see a young man in jail for 5 years all thanks to drugs and his "mates" that got him sucked in again.

Cannabis is not addictive, it has no physically addictive properties.

I don't consume cannabis for recreational purposes, I use it for pain management, usually less than .5g per day (which is bugger all). The fact is, the illegal nature of the plant prevents me from consuming any other way; the cost would be prohibitive.

Cannabis is often known as a gateway drug, but in most cases the gateway is Tobacco or Alcohol.

Alcohol is by far a bigger problem than all other illegal drugs combined, tobacco bigger again, in fact I'd be surprised if Coffee didn't cause more issues than Cannabis.

I'm assuming you smoke it?
if you do and you want to limit health problems and reduce the amount you use try a vaporizer,you will cut your usage down dramatically without the effects that combustion bring.
As for cods points
1 -pot is NOT addictive, but if you mix tobacco with it you will become addicted to the tobacco.
2 can using pot be a stepping stone to other drugs?
that's like saying smoking cigarettes will make you an alcoholic, pot itself does not cause anyone to get involved in other drugs, BUT what happens often is people that use pot score it off people that also deal other drugs, when their dealer is out of pot they may be offered speed, acid or coke for instance, so NO pot does not lead to the consumption of other drugs, but keeping pot illegal DOES,as it often introduces the pot user to other drugs for no reason other than pot is not available.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate Reply #35 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 5:24pm ... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 5:55pm: Quote: words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill.. I'd bet the house he really 'started' on alcohol. does it matter they are both addictive... I meant before he ended up in H.sheeeeez
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cods

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #36 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 5:42pm

Equitist wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 6:09pm:

It sounds to me, Cods, as though the family you describe has a predisposition to ADD/ADHD - though the older generations would have gone undiagnosed and untreated...

If the 15 year old you mentioned has not been properly medicated and counseled, then there's every chance that he'll start self-medicating soon...

BTW, smoking cigarettes is a common pre-cursor to smoking pot...

well there goes your self appointed diagnosis.. wrong on every point..

my grandson is fantastic thank you..he now has a job after school.. and we couldnt be prouder...what I was talking about to gik... was how easy it would be for someone like him to fall by the wayside..

gik says it aint as bad as what everyone claims it is..

the older generation!! how do you know what caused their addictions?.. I am saying it is part of my grandsons genes..for all I know alcoholism may be even further back.. I dont ask.

but by todays standards they could all be heroin addicts instead of alcoholics...I am not sure which is worse to be honest..sitting there slurping down grog.. or shooting up..or sniffing

yes I can guarantee most pot smokers smoked cigarettes .. lets face it.. they say one cigarette and you are gone.. and cigarettes being very handy to get hold of...why wouldnt they??

the young man in jail.. my grandsons cousin is 31 I have a soft spot for this guy .. his dad left the family when he was 7 and he kind of went wild.. but anyway he cleaned himself up.. just unbelievable got a job got a car..then he fell in with the same crowd once again... and bang he is now serving time..hold up with a knife..the sad thing is we now think he is brain damaged...he is over weight before he was like annorexic.. they are doing nothing for him in prison..the place is riddled with drugs although he tells his mum he isnt going there..she visits twice a week..you can only go if immediate family. I cant tell you how distressing the whole thing is.. he will come out in a year and be sent b ack to where all the creeps are still.. I dont believe he will ever work and his poor mum works two jobs..and faces him coming home to live with her.. because where else can he go.

you have to live with the ripple affect to really understand the harm.

and to legalise something as dangerous as this isnt my idea of fixing a problem..one thing does lead to another.... not for everyone but an awful lot.and that should be enough

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qikvtec

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #37 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 6:46pm

cods wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 5:42pm:

Equitist wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 6:09pm:

It sounds to me, Cods, as though the family you describe has a predisposition to ADD/ADHD - though the older generations would have gone undiagnosed and untreated...

If the 15 year old you mentioned has not been properly medicated and counseled, then there's every chance that he'll start self-medicating soon...

BTW, smoking cigarettes is a common pre-cursor to smoking pot...

well there goes your self appointed diagnosis.. wrong on every point..

my grandson is fantastic thank you..he now has a job after school.. and we couldnt be prouder...what I was talking about to gik... was how easy it would be for someone like him to fall by the wayside..

gik says it aint as bad as what everyone claims it is..

the older generation!! how do you know what caused their addictions?.. I am saying it is part of my grandsons genes..for all I know alcoholism may be even further back.. I dont ask.

but by todays standards they could all be heroin addicts instead of alcoholics...I am not sure which is worse to be honest..sitting there slurping down grog.. or shooting up..or sniffing

yes I can guarantee most pot smokers smoked cigarettes .. lets face it.. they say one cigarette and you are gone.. and cigarettes being very handy to get hold of...why wouldnt they??

the young man in jail.. my grandsons cousin is 31 I have a soft spot for this guy .. his dad left the family when he was 7 and he kind of went wild.. but anyway he cleaned himself up.. just unbelievable got a job got a car..then he fell in with the same crowd once again... and bang he is now serving time..hold up with a knife..the sad thing is we now think he is brain damaged...he is over weight before he was like annorexic.. they are doing nothing for him in prison..the place is riddled with drugs although he tells his mum he isnt going there..she visits twice a week..you can only go if immediate family. I cant tell you how distressing the whole thing is.. he will come out in a year and be sent b ack to where all the creeps are still.. I dont believe he will ever work and his poor mum works two jobs..and faces him coming home to live with her.. because where else can he go.

you have to live with the ripple affect to really understand the harm.

and to legalise something as dangerous as this isnt my idea of fixing a problem..one thing does lead to another.... not for everyone but an awful lot.and that should be enough

As dangerous as pot?

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #38 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 8:56pm

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use.

Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here.

The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside).

Portugal has led the way on the issue.

Let's discuss.

People, including most silver spooners, smoke cannabis to feel half able to come down from the meth to even entertain the possiblity about actually going to work on Monday!

PURE FACT!

YOU CAN'T SMOKE ALL THAT CRACK AND NOT USE WEED TO COME DOWN... BUT IT DOESN'T WORK!

SMOKING CRACK DESTRIOYS YOU AND DOPE JUST MAKES YOU HALF FEEL BETTER ABOUT EMBARRASING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY SO THOUROUGHLY AND UTTERLY ON IT!

A bit of dopes alright but the hydros will kill your mind eventually!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Kat

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #39 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 9:28pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 8:56pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use.

Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here.

The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside).

Portugal has led the way on the issue.

Let's discuss.

People, including most silver spooners, smoke cannabis to feel half able to come down from the meth to even entertain the possiblity about actually going to work on Monday!

PURE FACT!

YOU CAN'T SMOKE ALL THAT CRACK AND NOT USE WEED TO COME DOWN... BUT IT DOESN'T WORK!

SMOKING CRACK DESTRIOYS YOU AND DOPE JUST MAKES YOU HALF FEEL BETTER ABOUT EMBARRASING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY SO THOUROUGHLY AND UTTERLY ON IT!

A bit of dopes alright but the hydros will kill your mind eventually!

And that made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #40 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 9:38pm

Kat wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 9:28pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 8:56pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use.

Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here.

The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside).

Portugal has led the way on the issue.

Let's discuss.

People, including most silver spooners, smoke cannabis to feel half able to come down from the meth to even entertain the possiblity about actually going to work on Monday!

PURE FACT!

YOU CAN'T SMOKE ALL THAT CRACK AND NOT USE WEED TO COME DOWN... BUT IT DOESN'T WORK!

SMOKING CRACK DESTRIOYS YOU AND DOPE JUST MAKES YOU HALF FEEL BETTER ABOUT EMBARRASING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY SO THOUROUGHLY AND UTTERLY ON IT!

A bit of dopes alright but the hydros will kill your mind eventually!

And that made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

wHEN YOU'RE SCARED OF the 13 year old kid down the street you can be sure the town/city/country has a drug problem! Huh

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Super Nova

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #41 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 9:49pm

Quote:

2 can using pot be a stepping stone to other drugs?
that's like saying smoking cigarettes will make you an alcoholic, pot itself does not cause anyone to get involved in other drugs, BUT what happens often is people that use pot score it off people that also deal other drugs, when their dealer is out of pot they may be offered speed, acid or coke for instance, so NO pot does not lead to the consumption of other drugs, but keeping pot illegal DOES,as it often introduces the pot user to other drugs for no reason other than pot is not available.

Spot on. This is my experience. It is the association with dealers that introduces you to other things.

There is an article/letter in the Times here in the UK today signed by Jimmy Carter ...etc stating the UN treating on the War on Drug introduced in 1961 (i think that was the date) has failed and we should all look to harm minimisation. Drugs is the 3rd biggest industry in the world behind food and oil and all the money is control by criminals.

Time for a change in the way we think about drugs.

I say, don't just decriminalise it, legalise it, tax it, manufacture it under government or private companies.

Provide Coffee shop environments to buy and use it. Like providing pubs for alchohol, provide shops for drugs.

Take the crime out of it. Provide support for those who get into trouble. Make the world a safer place.

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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate Reply #42 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 10:05pm Pot introduced me to speed, coke, ecstasy and heroin. Thankyou pot. It's been fun.
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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate Reply #43 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 10:37pm Why is this thread even here? No objections about the content of the debate, but there is a drug policy forum available for use
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Bobby.

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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #44 - Nov 19^th, 2011 at 11:53pm

Super Nova wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 9:49pm:

Quote:

2 can using pot be a stepping stone to other drugs?
that's like saying smoking cigarettes will make you an alcoholic, pot itself does not cause anyone to get involved in other drugs, BUT what happens often is people that use pot score it off people that also deal other drugs, when their dealer is out of pot they may be offered speed, acid or coke for instance, so NO pot does not lead to the consumption of other drugs, but keeping pot illegal DOES,as it often introduces the pot user to other drugs for no reason other than pot is not available.

Spot on. This is my experience. It is the association with dealers that introduces you to other things.

There is an article/letter in the Times here in the UK today signed by Jimmy Carter ...etc stating the UN treating on the War on Drug introduced in 1961 (i think that was the date) has failed and we should all look to harm minimisation. Drugs is the 3rd biggest industry in the world behind food and oil and all the money is control by criminals.

Time for a change in the way we think about drugs.

I say, don't just decriminalise it, legalise it, tax it, manufacture it under government or private companies.

Provide Coffee shop environments to buy and use it. Like providing pubs for alchohol, provide shops for drugs.

Take the crime out of it. Provide support for those who get into trouble. Make the world a safer place.

The only problem with pot is that some people will inevitably abuse it -
in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their
dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives.

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