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Cannabis, it's time to have the debate (Read 7498 times)
Life_goes_on
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #75 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 9:27pm
 
qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 9:11pm:
Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:58pm:
qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:19pm:
Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 9:13pm:
Quote:
3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack.


I doubt many would for meth. Smack yes - meth no. You never really hang out for meth like you do for smack. The worst it ever gets with meth is that using again just seems like a really good idea - not an extreme necessity like with smack.


I've never booted anything, have had the occasional line and pipe though and would tend to agree.  Don't think I could manage smack myself, if it's that addictive I may not be able to help myself.


Smacks addictive - the most addictive by a long margin with what I've tried but you still need a couple of weeks of daily use to really get addicted. Not that that's hard to fall into that cycle - it is nice - nice beyond what someone who hasn't tried it could believe.

I've never booted it - only smoked it - but I have booted meth. Meth just gets old quickly - you want it, but you never really crave it,

Based on what you've said, I'd gp see an addiction specialist and see what they prescribe for pain management. Unless you're based in Qld - then your options are extremely limited and getting anything seriously strong is going to result in daily reporting for a dose which is neither a good look or often able to fit in with a career.


Based in QLD; The original police state.

I don't really mind having a couple of cones every night, 3 or 4 usually, no nic.  If it were legal I would just grow 2 or 4 plants and use a solvent extraction to keep myself in a regular supply of the good oil.


If it works for you then you should be able to (legally) do it. I don't know... I've never met anybody that smoked pot for medical reasons. But based on what you've said... and that you're based in Qld.... makes me even more certain that the prohibition of pot is completely wrong.

The arguments in regards to being stoned at work are a crock of sh!t - there's effective testing gear out then then use that. Legalising pot doesn't mean that you are able to be stoned either on the roads or at work.
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #76 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 9:35pm
 
Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 9:27pm:
qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 9:11pm:
Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:58pm:
qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:19pm:
Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 9:13pm:
Quote:
3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack.


I doubt many would for meth. Smack yes - meth no. You never really hang out for meth like you do for smack. The worst it ever gets with meth is that using again just seems like a really good idea - not an extreme necessity like with smack.


I've never booted anything, have had the occasional line and pipe though and would tend to agree.  Don't think I could manage smack myself, if it's that addictive I may not be able to help myself.


Smacks addictive - the most addictive by a long margin with what I've tried but you still need a couple of weeks of daily use to really get addicted. Not that that's hard to fall into that cycle - it is nice - nice beyond what someone who hasn't tried it could believe.

I've never booted it - only smoked it - but I have booted meth. Meth just gets old quickly - you want it, but you never really crave it,

Based on what you've said, I'd gp see an addiction specialist and see what they prescribe for pain management. Unless you're based in Qld - then your options are extremely limited and getting anything seriously strong is going to result in daily reporting for a dose which is neither a good look or often able to fit in with a career.


Based in QLD; The original police state.

I don't really mind having a couple of cones every night, 3 or 4 usually, no nic.  If it were legal I would just grow 2 or 4 plants and use a solvent extraction to keep myself in a regular supply of the good oil.


If it works for you then you should be able to (legally) do it. I don't know... I've never met anybody that smoked pot for medical reasons. But based on what you've said... and that you're based in Qld.... makes me even more certain that the prohibition of pot is completely wrong.

The arguments in regards to being stoned at work are a crock of sh!t - there's effective testing gear out then then use that. Legalising pot doesn't mean that you are able to be stoned either on the roads or at work.


I concur.  There are some occupations that could be successfully completed or perhaps even enhanced with a bowl before, during and after.  I would never condone the consumption whilst  or prior driving or operating machinery; despite some research that people tend to concentrate more whilst bent and driving; reaction times would most likely go out the window.

Another side effect of prohibition is the lack of proper research, strain development and testing for the potency and concentrations of the various cannibinoids.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

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mozzaok
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #77 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 9:54pm
 
I am really surprised that the debate regarding drug prohibition in general, and even more ridiculously, the status of marijuana as an illegal drug, has not really progressed in over forty years.
Every study and report invariably comes back with the findings that our current system of prohibition is counter productive, and more harmful than if we just decriminalised everything.
Of course we would want to think we are smart enough that we would not just jump from one silly extreme to the other, but the fact remains that anyone who believes that the system of criminalising drug use has not been an absolute and unmitigated disaster on every conceivable level, is living in that old Egyptian river.

On top of the huge toll on personal lives, and the massive cost to society that this ridiculous war on drugs has created, we should never lose sight of the fact that the money from this trade is huge, and the profits are far too often translated into weapons for creating even more turmoil in this world, which makes more young people so depressed and fatalistic that they take up drugs to escape the horror of it all.
Seriously, you could not make this shite up.

Still we will never progress when the level of debate is contained to the small minded ignorance of mums and dads whose experience and experise on the subject begins and ends with, "Drugs are bad".
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cods
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #78 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:15pm
 
Effects of Marijuana

The effects of marijuana will vary from person to person depending on:

How much taken

How strong (potent) the marijuana is

How the marijuana is taken (joint, bong, food)

Size, weight, health

Mood

Individual experience with marijuana

If marijuana is taken with other drugs

Whether alone or with other people, at home or at a party.
Onset 0-10 minutes
Coming Up  5-10 minutes
Plateau 15-30 minutes
Coming Down 45-60 minutes
After Effects 30-60 minutes


Because marijuana users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and then hold it in their lungs as long as possible, marijuana is damaging to the lungs and pulmonary system. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same carcinogens and toxic particulates as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations. Long-term users of cannabis may develop psychological dependence and require more of the drug to get the same effect. The drug can become the center of their lives.


The Effects of Marijuana on the Male:

Marijuana is the most common drug used by adolescents in America today. Marijuana affect the parts of the brain which controls the sex and growth hormones. In males, marijuana can decrease the testosterone level. Occasional cases of enlarged breasts in male marijuana users are triggered by the chemical impact on the hormone system. Regular marijuana use can also lead to a decrease in sperm count, as well as increases in abnormal and immature sperm. Marijuana is a contributing factor in the rising problem of infertility in males. Young males should know the effects and potential effects of marijuana use on sex and growing process before they decide to smoke marijuana.

The Effects of Marijuana on the Female:

Just as in Males, marijuana effects the female in the part of the brain that controls the hormones, which determines the sequence in the menstrual cycle. Its been said that females who smoked or used marijuana on a regular basis had irregular menstrual cycles, the female hormones were depressed, and the testosterone level was raised. Even though this effect may be reversible, it may take several months of no marijuana use before the menstrual cycles become normal again.

Mothers who smoke marijuana on a regular basis have been reported of having babies with a weak central nervous system. These babies show abnormal reactions to light and sound, exhibit tremors and startles, and have the high-pitched cry associated with drug withdrawal. Occurring at five times the rate of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, Fetal Marijuana Syndrome is a growing concern of many doctors. Furthermore, doctors worry that children born to "pot-head" mothers will have learning disabilities, attention deficits and hormonal irregularities as they grow older, even if there are no apparent signs of damage at birth. Pregnant or nursing mothers who smoke marijuana should talk to their doctors immediately.

Effects of Marijuana on the Brain:

Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain's limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus and the activity of the nerve fibers are suppressed by THC. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate.

Recent research findings also indicate that long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs of abuse.

Effects of marijuana on the Lungs:

Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to the marijuana users inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs.

Effects of Marijuana on Heart Rate and Blood Pressure:

Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure. In one study, experienced marijuana and



I am not sure why parents would want to get involved in this debate..

it should most certainly be left up to the young.
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #79 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:04pm
 
cods wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:15pm:


Cannabis needn't be smoked Cods, you can extract the cannabinoids via various methods.  It's fat soluble. So the first and last paragraph of that document are moot.  The last paragraph is a disgrace, I think you'll find vegemite toast would have the same effect after shooting up a dose of cocaine; that's a laughable conclusion at best. 

The population of the Caribbean and much of Asia where recreational, medicinal and spiritual used of Cannabis is rife, would make a mockery of the effects on both the reproductive system and health of children.  Jamaican women routinely smoke pre, peri, and post natal, with no substantial increase in birth defects in children.

Did you watch the medicine man Cods? You can watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDjvnhuCd8 and I would encourage you to watch it with an open mind.

The irony here Cods is Cannabis high in CBD & CBN would substantially reduce your pain and if taken before bed will greatly increase your ability to get good, deep, recuperative sleep.  You'd wake up feeling fine.

Cannabis Sativa, which is high in THC, is very useful for treating many anxiety and depression related conditions and also aids spasticity in those with MS, Parkinson's and other tremor illnesses.

There are US Govt funded studies that show Cannabis can kill a variety of cancer cells, first discovered in 1975!! Do you not think that warrants further investigation?

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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Amadd
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #80 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 10:02pm
 
Quote:
Hey?

People can't and don't abuse pot?

You're perspectiveless!!  Cheesy


Fair enough, I should've qualified that statement a little more.

Yes I agree it can be abused as an escapism tool in the long term, but short term there is no evidence that one can overdose from THC toxicity, nor can they ever become physically addicted.




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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #81 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 5:49pm
 
Amadd wrote on Nov 22nd, 2011 at 10:02pm:
Quote:
Hey?

People can't and don't abuse pot?

You're perspectiveless!!  Cheesy


Fair enough, I should've qualified that statement a little more.

Yes I agree it can be abused as an escapism tool in the long term, but short term there is no evidence that one can overdose from THC toxicity, nor can they ever become physically addicted.




Toxicity

Toxicity is virtually nonexistent in natural marijuana. The toxicity levels of cannabis compounds are estimated at 40,000, meaning that a subject would have to ingest 40,000 times the regular dose to induce death. “In layman’s terms,” according to The New England Journal of Medicine, ”a smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.” [1] While that amount of consumption is certainly an impossible feat, in comparison, legal prescription medications cause thousands of deaths per year. [2] Common household drugs are much more lethal than marijuana. For instance, a lethal dose of caffeine is equal to about 100 cups of coffee. [3]  In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. [4] Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies on humans, animals and cell cultures. None of those describe any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. [5] In 2008, The Canadian Medical Association Journal published a review of research spanning 30 years, concluding that there are no serious adverse effects of cannabis use.[6]  Contaminants, however, are known to be hazardous, especially to those suffering from immune disorders. [7]

Related sections: Contaminants, Immune Responses, Replacement of Medications.





[1] Annas, “Reefer Madness—The federal response to California’s medical-marijuana law.” The New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 337, No. 6, August 7, 1997

[2] “Death from drug errors rise sharply for outpatients.” The Seattle Times, Febraury 28, 1998

[3] American Psychiatric Association, Desk Reference to the Diagnostic Criteria from DSM-3-R

[4] National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse, 1972

[5] Buckley, “Is marijuana fear a myth?” National Review, August 24, 1997

[6] “The adverse effects of cannabinoids: implications for use of medical marijuana” Louisa Degenhardt, MPsych(Clin) PhD and Wayne D. Hall, PhD CMAJ • June 17, 2008; 178 (13). doi:10.1503/cmaj.080585.© 2008 Canadian Medical Association or its licensors

[7] Hollister, “Health aspects of marijuana.” Pharmacological Review, Vol. 38, No. 1, 1986
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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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jame-e
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #82 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 8:39pm
 
Totally agree that pot should be decriminalised and properly managed. And in time most of the rest should follow.

But what are all the crooks going to do? and the people that catch them?
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #83 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 10:07pm
 
jame-e wrote on Nov 23rd, 2011 at 8:39pm:
Totally agree that pot should be decriminalised and properly managed. And in time most of the rest should follow.

But what are all the crooks going to do? and the people that catch them?


Back to the time honoured tradition of gambling, prostitution, racketeering, extortion and waste management; that or run for parliament.
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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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cods
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #84 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 5:51am
 
qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:04pm:
cods wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:15pm:


Cannabis needn't be smoked Cods, you can extract the cannabinoids via various methods.  It's fat soluble. So the first and last paragraph of that document are moot.  The last paragraph is a disgrace, I think you'll find vegemite toast would have the same effect after shooting up a dose of cocaine; that's a laughable conclusion at best.  

The population of the Caribbean and much of Asia where recreational, medicinal and spiritual used of Cannabis is rife, would make a mockery of the effects on both the reproductive system and health of children.  Jamaican women routinely smoke pre, peri, and post natal, with no substantial increase in birth defects in children.

Did you watch the medicine man Cods? You can watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDjvnhuCd8 and I would encourage you to watch it with an open mind.

The irony here Cods is Cannabis high in CBD & CBN would substantially reduce your pain and if taken before bed will greatly increase your ability to get good, deep, recuperative sleep.  You'd wake up feeling fine.Cannabis Sativa, which is high in THC, is very useful for treating many anxiety and depression related conditions and also aids spasticity in those with MS, Parkinson's and other tremor illnesses.

There are US Govt funded studies that show Cannabis can kill a variety of cancer cells, first discovered in 1975!! Do you not think that warrants further investigation?





well its all in the mind of the believer isnt it..

first up you talk about the Caribbean as if these people have been the saviours of the world.. and discovered a cure for cancer... to m y knowledge I havent read where anyone from the Caribbean has ever won a Nobel Prize..maybe because they are too stoned out of their minds?? I did say maybe.

as well you admit it has some affect on the nervous system... if it helps with pain and sleep why would it not become addictive like other drugs [legal]that help with pain and sleep????


we have huge problem world wide with legal drugs... being given out illegally... Michael Jackson...

so if you campaign for legalised free market for pot... why not a free buy off the shelf campaign for legal drugs???.

we should all have the right to treat our pain or sleep problems at our own discretion without interferance from govts or the dreaded dogooder.
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #85 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 10:15am
 
qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 7:21pm:
I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use.

Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here.

The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside).

Portugal has led the way on the issue.

Let's discuss.


The reason the war on drugs has failed is because only one side does the dying, and has to live with the misery.
The dealers, importers and manufacturers spend a short time in a 5 star prison where they brush up on new techniques and update their phone book with new contacts for when they get out.
They may as well send them to TAFE to do a Cert III in Drug Peddling and save locking them up.
If the justice system really wants to win the war on drugs, they will need to up the ante substantially, and make the penalties so draconian that no one will want to touch the stuff.
Then we will see who wins the war on drugs.
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qikvtec
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #86 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 7:52pm
 
cods wrote on Nov 24th, 2011 at 5:51am:
qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:04pm:
cods wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:15pm:


Cannabis needn't be smoked Cods, you can extract the cannabinoids via various methods.  It's fat soluble. So the first and last paragraph of that document are moot.  The last paragraph is a disgrace, I think you'll find vegemite toast would have the same effect after shooting up a dose of cocaine; that's a laughable conclusion at best.  

The population of the Caribbean and much of Asia where recreational, medicinal and spiritual used of Cannabis is rife, would make a mockery of the effects on both the reproductive system and health of children.  Jamaican women routinely smoke pre, peri, and post natal, with no substantial increase in birth defects in children.

Did you watch the medicine man Cods? You can watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDjvnhuCd8 and I would encourage you to watch it with an open mind.

The irony here Cods is Cannabis high in CBD & CBN would substantially reduce your pain and if taken before bed will greatly increase your ability to get good, deep, recuperative sleep.  You'd wake up feeling fine.Cannabis Sativa, which is high in THC, is very useful for treating many anxiety and depression related conditions and also aids spasticity in those with MS, Parkinson's and other tremor illnesses.

There are US Govt funded studies that show Cannabis can kill a variety of cancer cells, first discovered in 1975!! Do you not think that warrants further investigation?





1. well its all in the mind of the believer isnt it..

2. first up you talk about the Caribbean as if these people have been the saviours of the world.. and discovered a cure for cancer... to m y knowledge I havent read where anyone from the Caribbean has ever won a Nobel Prize..maybe because they are too stoned out of their minds?? I did say maybe.

3. as well you admit it has some affect on the nervous system... if it helps with pain and sleep why would it not become addictive like other drugs [legal]that help with pain and sleep????


4. we have huge problem world wide with legal drugs... being given out illegally... Michael Jackson...

5. so if you campaign for legalised free market for pot... why not a free buy off the shelf campaign for legal drugs???.

6. we should all have the right to treat our pain or sleep problems at our own discretion without interferance from govts or the dreaded dogooder.


1. No it's in the mind of the researchers actually.  
2. The Caribbean has produced 5 Nobel Laureates.  For comparison Australia has produced 10.
3. Because it doesn't interact with cells in the same way.  Mixing it with tobacco, as is often the case, can make it addictive, but you are addicted to the nicotine and not the Cannabinoids
4. Ban the doctors providing them.
5. Ironically because most of them are harmful if abused.
6. How could you possibly believe that yet advocate loudly and proudly that pot should remain illegal?



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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #87 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 8:01pm
 
My argument against legalisation is simply that smoking is anti social anyway and cannabis really stinks. Not to mention that the average pot head is generally unable to string two words together and when they can their only conversation is about their habit. Roll Eyes
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #88 - Nov 25th, 2011 at 5:47am
 
Belgarion wrote on Nov 24th, 2011 at 8:01pm:
My argument against legalisation is simply that smoking is anti social anyway and cannabis really stinks. Not to mention that the average pot head is generally unable to string two words together and when they can their only conversation is about their habit. Roll Eyes



Smoking may be anti-social, but the rest of your comment is so stereotype-based as to be ludicrous.

You've been watching too many Cheech & Chong movies.
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Re: Cannabis, it's time to have the debate
Reply #89 - Nov 25th, 2011 at 11:17pm
 
Kat wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:12pm:
Legalise it for both medicinal AND recreational use.

No debate needed.

Just DO IT!!

Illegality is the crime, not use.

Not that I expect the more clueless amog us to ever understand that....


Have just started reading this - and already KAT and Qikvtec (get a FORD) Wink have stated the obvious 'best practice' policy the Oz Gov. should take.  IT REALLY IS a NO-BRAINER.
I'll read on .

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